The v2 Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

England v Ireland, 5 September

+77
Cumbrian
The Great Aukster
Marshes
donglewood
SimonofSurrey
asoreleftshoulder
pledgeX
ChequeredJersey
LeinsterFan4life
profitius
wrfc1980
Exiled Gael
Duty281
theslosty
Hammersmith harrier
Heaf
mrsuperclear
Thomond
majesticimperialman
Scottrf
milkyboy
wales606
GLove39
mikey_dragon
JmD
nathan
eirebilly
Pot Hale
WELL-PAST-IT
Sin é
Gooseberry
Rory_Gallagher
Sgt_Pooly
kunu
GunsGerms
munkian
king_carlos
lostinwales
LondonTiger
hugehandoff
spaynter
doctor_grey
propdavid_london
Shifty
ME-109
SecretFly
Golden
Pete330v2
HongKongCherry
funnyExiledScot
Cyril
DaveM
englandglory4ever
BigTrevsbigmac
Luckless Pedestrian
kingelderfield
rosbif
maestegmafia
thomh
Artful_Dodger
Barney McGrew did it
No 7&1/2
Jimpy
Hoonercat
Geordie
Poorfour
beshocked
Happytravelling
Rugby Fan
Notch
bedfordwelsh
RubyGuby
stub
fa0019
BamBam
yappysnap
George Carlin
81 posters

Page 1 of 12 1, 2, 3 ... 10, 11, 12  Next

Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by George Carlin Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:07 am

England v Ireland, 5 September Englan10   England v Ireland, 5 September Irelan10
ENGLAND v IRELAND
5 September 2015
14:30 BST
Twickenham, London

Live on Sky Sports 1

Referee: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Touch judges: Romain Poite (France) Leighton Hodges (Wales)
Television match official: Shaun Veldsman (South Africa)

A. Head to Head

129 Played 129
74 Won 47
8 Drawn 8
47 Lost 74
1,484 Points 1,056

B. Recent Form

1 March 2015
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
19 – 9 to Ireland

22 February 2014
Twickenham, London
13 – 10 to England

10 February 2013
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
6 – 12 to England

17 March 2012
Twickenham, London
30 – 9 to England

27 August 2011
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
9 – 20 to England

19 March 2011
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
24 – 8 to Ireland

27 February 2010
Twickenham, London
16 – 20 to Ireland

C. Teams

ENGLAND
England v Ireland, 5 September Michae13
15. Mike Brown (Harlequins, 38 caps)
14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 10 caps)
13. Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 12 caps)
12. Brad Barritt (Saracens, 22 caps)
11. Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 15 caps)
10. George Ford (Bath Rugby, 12 caps)
09. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 48 caps)

01. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 32 caps)
02. Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 23 caps)
03. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 51 caps)
04. Geoff Parling (Exeter Chiefs, 24 caps)
05. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 39 caps)
06. Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 37 caps)
07. Chris Robshaw (captain, Harlequins, 38 caps)
08. Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby, 28 caps)

16. Jamie George (Saracens, 1 cap)
17. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 22 caps)
18. Kieran Brookes (Northampton Saints, 11 caps)
19. Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 23 caps)
20. Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 18 caps)
21. Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens, 22 caps)
22. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 30 caps)
23. Sam Burgess (Bath Rugby, 1 cap)


IRELAND
England v Ireland, 5 September Michae12
01. Jack McGrath (St. Marys College/Leinster)
02. Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
03. Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
04. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
05. Paul O'Connell (Young Munster) (capt)
06. Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
07. Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster)
08. Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster)

09. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
10. Johnny Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
11. Dave Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster)
12. Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht)
13. Jared Payne (Ulster)
14. Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
15. Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster)

16. Richardt Strauss (Old Wesley/Leinster)
17. Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster)
18. Nathan White (Connacht)
19. Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
20. Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster)
21. Eoin Reddan (Old Crescent/Leinster)
22. Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster)
23. Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)


Last edited by George Carlin on Thu Sep 03, 2015 2:59 pm; edited 4 times in total
George Carlin
George Carlin
Admin
Admin

Posts : 15729
Join date : 2011-06-23
Location : KSA

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by yappysnap Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:54 pm

Man I didn't realised we'd beaten Ireland that many times.

Ah time to bask in the moral superiority that gives me

yappysnap

Posts : 11993
Join date : 2011-06-01
Age : 36
Location : Christchurch, NZ

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by yappysnap Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:57 pm

oh and good call on the Irish picture. I've just finished Fortitude and he was very good in it.

Not quite as photogenic as your usual pic's though...

yappysnap

Posts : 11993
Join date : 2011-06-01
Age : 36
Location : Christchurch, NZ

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by George Carlin Mon Aug 31, 2015 11:50 am

I can't be hopelessly sexist about the team representatives every week, Yappy.

Just, you know, most weeks.

Do England and Ireland fans really not give a poop about this game? Like the deck of the Marie Celeste around here.
George Carlin
George Carlin
Admin
Admin

Posts : 15729
Join date : 2011-06-23
Location : KSA

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by BamBam Mon Aug 31, 2015 11:54 am

By the looks of it, England fans are arguing with each other about Burgess, and with the usual Welsh wuss, while the Irish are still arguing with the Welsh about Saturday!

BamBam

Posts : 17226
Join date : 2011-03-17
Age : 34

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by fa0019 Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:02 pm

I think England should surely start Burgess. This is the one chance they will have to test him and see what he's like against top opposition. I hear Barritt is the no1, well if he's injured than Burgess is the only option so you have test him...(well at least IMO).

The forwards need to step up big time, whoever has the 2 jersey needs to have a huge game.

Farrell should start too.

fa0019

Posts : 8196
Join date : 2011-07-25

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by BamBam Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:12 pm

Barritt and Joseph will start, think SL has already said so, they need a game together, not sure if Burgess or Slade should be the bench cover though, I'd like both to get a run with the first choice team but tough to see how that could happen

We know Farrell will be on the bench, maybe give him a rest and have Slade and Burgess as 22 and 23?

Slade can get a run at 10 late on and Burgess can replace Barritt for 20 odd mins

I honestly don't give a monkeys about the result at the moment, although I'm sure that will change once I'm caught up in the game, so for me I have no issues with them being tried

BamBam

Posts : 17226
Join date : 2011-03-17
Age : 34

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by stub Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:16 pm

I think we all deeply care about it George but are distracted as BamBam describes! My take is that it will be a great confidence boost for the team that comes out on top on Saturday but that's about it. So long as both teams play well and, in England's case in particular, sort out the weaknesses that were seen in previous matches, then a loss is not disastrous for either team. After all if England play well and are edged out by the number 2 team in the world then that's not the end of the world.

stub

Posts : 2226
Join date : 2013-01-31

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by RubyGuby Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:27 pm

The result does matter cos one of these so called fancied teams will be going into the RWC on the back of 2 defeats and that will instill some doubt. Factor in that England are still unsure of so many positions and it becomes a bit of a must win for them at Twickenham especially after Wales performance in Dublin

RubyGuby

Posts : 7404
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : UK

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by yappysnap Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:23 pm

Probable England team:

Marler
Youngs
Cole
Lawes
Parling

That is a scarily light weight front 5

Wood
Robshaw
Vunipola

Our go to backrow, lots of graft there but no real game changers, and no one to blast the Irish back off the ball. Slow too.

Wigglesworth
Ford

After Youngs poor game last week I think Wigglesworth will start this match, tactical kicking will help Ford.

Barrett
Joseph

The starting centres, lots of pressure on them to perform and gel quickly

May
Watson
Brown

Probably the best bit of the whole team, if the wings can play like they did against France then we'll be in for a treat. Need to be perfect under the high ball though.

yappysnap

Posts : 11993
Join date : 2011-06-01
Age : 36
Location : Christchurch, NZ

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by RubyGuby Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:15 pm

The result does matter cos one of these so called fancied teams will be going into the RWC on the back of 2 defeats and that will instill some doubt. Factor in that England are still unsure of so many positions and it becomes a bit of a must win for them at Twickenham especially after Wales performance in Dublin

RubyGuby

Posts : 7404
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : UK

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by BamBam Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:16 pm

Always glad to see our Welsh friends have such concern for our form thumbsup

BamBam

Posts : 17226
Join date : 2011-03-17
Age : 34

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by bedfordwelsh Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:20 pm

BamBam wrote:Always glad to see our Welsh friends have such concern for our form thumbsup

When we are in the same group why wouldn't we be?

Genuine question but which team would be more concerned with a loss?
bedfordwelsh
bedfordwelsh
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 9962
Join date : 2011-05-11
Age : 56

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by Notch Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:21 pm

George Carlin wrote:I can't be hopelessly sexist about the team representatives every week, Yappy.

Just, you know, most weeks.

Do England and Ireland fans really not give a poop about this game? Like the deck of the Marie Celeste around here.

Hopefully no injuries and a decent performance, but tbh I don't really care. We have games against Canada, Romania and Italy before our showdown with France so the momentum argument doesn't apply to us. Seeing Canada and Italy get beaten heavily by teams well below us in terms of performance over the past few years makes me thank our lucky stars for having such a kind start to the tournament.

It's always nice to beat England but I won't exactly be shedding any tears if the game goes against us, so long as it's not an embarrassing defeat i.e. a heavy one.
Notch
Notch
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 25635
Join date : 2011-02-10
Age : 36
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by Rugby Fan Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:25 pm

George Carlin wrote:Do England and Ireland fans really not give a poop about this game? Like the deck of the Marie Celeste around here.
England fans certainly care a great deal, George, it's just that we've exhausted most avenues of enquiry discussing the last match and the squad selection. We need fresh meat.

I expect a bit more discussion once we get the team announcement but, really, we need to see how we go in the match itself. The only thing which would really heat up our keyboards/touch screens before kick off is if someone gets injured in training. If Brad Barritt has to pull out of this match too, then that would certainly stir things up.

Rugby Fan
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 7572
Join date : 2012-09-14

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by Rugby Fan Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:43 pm

Incidentally, are we all over this on another thread? Rugby match scenes start after about 55 minutes.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iTmRAsfUd4

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11504410

Rugby Fan
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 7572
Join date : 2012-09-14

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by Happytravelling Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:46 pm

It's more important for England to win. As pointed out, Ireland have a few 'warm up' games in their group to put a string of wins together.

However, it will be a real confidence boost for if they meet in the ko stages.

The discussions will start once the squads are announced.

Barritt and JJ will start, if Barritt is fit. I assume SL will have burgess and/or Slade on the bench.

For some time I've suspected Barritt is still an uncertainty, which is the reason for the about turn wrt burgess. SL sees him as the closest 'like 4 like' to Barritt. Burrell isn't solid enough.

Ultimately, burgess brings a little more but is inexperienced and needs to rapidly improve his positional play. But that done, he will present a formidable replacement for Barritt.

Happytravelling

Posts : 889
Join date : 2011-07-23

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by beshocked Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:12 am

bedfordwelsh wrote:
BamBam wrote:Always glad to see our Welsh friends have such concern for our form thumbsup

When we are in the same group why wouldn't we be?

Genuine question but which team would be more concerned with a loss?

Don't think there is any doubt. It's England. A loss would lead to the alarm bells ringing - the loss against France can be excused to some extent as players would be rusty etc but this will be the 3rd warm up game.

England are in the more competitive pool so there is more need to hit the ground running.

beshocked

Posts : 14849
Join date : 2011-03-08

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by Poorfour Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:01 am

For me, it's more about performance than it is about the result.

If England can't find a working scrum and lineout and get blown away at the breakdown (and no ref excuses this week - Nige has a style that suits both teams well), then it's time to worry.

If they play well and lose a close game then I'm less worried. I'd actually take some encouragement from seeing Ireland find some holes in the defence or ways to stifle the attack as it's better to be found out sooner than later.

The other key thing for me is for England to have a better strategy for handling Ireland's kick chase game. With Brown back, things should improve but that seems to be where England are most vulnerable.

For Ireland, I would imagine that the priority would be to maintain momentum but balance that with not having any more injuries. A strong losing performance with a clean bill of health would probably be worth more to them than a win with injuries. I'd expect them to empty their bench quite early.
Poorfour
Poorfour

Posts : 6016
Join date : 2011-10-01

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by Geordie Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:24 am

Is it more advantageous to have hard games in your group or easy ones?

Do hard games makes you battle hardended...or do they drain you?

Will Youngs or George be starting at 2 for this game.

Geordie

Posts : 28323
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by fa0019 Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:27 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:Is it more advantageous to have hard games in your group or easy ones?

Do hard games makes you battle hardended...or do they drain you?

Will Youngs or George be starting at 2 for this game.

The last 3 winners of the RWC have come from the group where 2 of the traditional 5 big teams in rugby have contested.

03 - England & SA
07 - England & SA
11 - France & NZ

Although in 2 of those RWCs 1 side were heavily favoured in the first place.

fa0019

Posts : 8196
Join date : 2011-07-25

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by Hoonercat Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:27 am

From an English perspective, the result doesn't matter. Unless we're still in the game at 70 minutes of course, in which case it will be the most important game of the decade and I'll be screaming at the TV in the final few minutes. If we lose, meh, it's only a warm up game Whistle Very Happy
Part of me almost wants England to lose (though not get over run). I'd rather they to go in to the WC with a point to prove and carry that mentality throughout. Would have liked to see Burgess starting as I think Ireland could expose any weaknesses, I'd rather see it now than during the WC.

Hoonercat

Posts : 398
Join date : 2015-03-23

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by Jimpy Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:52 am

beshocked wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:
BamBam wrote:Always glad to see our Welsh friends have such concern for our form thumbsup

When we are in the same group why wouldn't we be?

Genuine question but which team would be more concerned with a loss?

Don't think there is any doubt. It's England.  A loss would lead to the alarm bells ringing - the loss against France can be excused to some extent as players would be rusty etc but this will be the 3rd warm up game.

England are in the more competitive pool so there is more need to hit the ground running.

And a loss by Ireland after defeat to Wales in Dublin wouldn't have the alarm bells ringing there either.....?


Jimpy

Posts : 2823
Join date : 2012-08-02
Location : Not in a hot sandy place anymore

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by fa0019 Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:59 am

To lose at home would be a massive loss for England leading up to the RWC... it would blow a huge hole through the fortress twickenham idea. England need to win this match, performance is 2nd.

fa0019

Posts : 8196
Join date : 2011-07-25

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by No 7&1/2 Tue Sep 01, 2015 12:00 pm

Think there has to be some acknowledgement that there's a few teams that can beat each other on a given day. A close game can go either way obviously it would improve morale, prove we can come back from a bad performance. I think I'd like an improved (much improved) performance and a close defeat than a performance like against France which ends in a 1 point win after another late come back.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 31349
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by beshocked Tue Sep 01, 2015 12:02 pm

Jimpy Ireland have an easier group than England. They are playing away in this match.

Agree fa0019. One of England's strengths should be home advantage. A loss to Ireland would damage this - especially as Ireland lost to Wales.

beshocked

Posts : 14849
Join date : 2011-03-08

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by Jimpy Tue Sep 01, 2015 12:06 pm

beshocked wrote:Jimpy Ireland have an easier group than England. They are playing away in this match.

Agree fa0019. One of England's strengths should be home advantage. A loss to Ireland would damage this - especially as Ireland lost to Wales.

Yes, but England were at least able to beat France at Twickenham, Ireland losing to Wales in Dublin would seem much worse if they were to lose at Twickenham too.

Jimpy

Posts : 2823
Join date : 2012-08-02
Location : Not in a hot sandy place anymore

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by beshocked Tue Sep 01, 2015 12:22 pm

Jimpy we are talking about England vs Ireland, not Ireland vs Wales.

A loss away is not as bad a loss at home - the loss to Wales mattered, a loss to England wouldn't hurt as much as the loss to Wales as a loss to England at home should be expected.

England need to keep winning at home when the tournament starts or they are knocked out.
Ireland have more breathing space because of the easier group - France and Italy are not as strong as Australia and Wales plus there's Fiji too.

The pressure is on England to perform. A 2nd string England beat a 2nd string France but the 1st team got outclassed in France.

beshocked

Posts : 14849
Join date : 2011-03-08

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by Barney McGrew did it Tue Sep 01, 2015 12:46 pm

The pack effort against France (particularly the 2nd game) is a real concern at the moment. SL has spent most of his tenure developing the pack and is mostly thought to have done a good job, since by reputation they are as good (if not better) than any pack bar possibly SA. However, last week’s performance was pretty miserable. Has SL flattered to deceive with this his major achievement or was it a one-off? We need at the very least parity against Ireland. So the result is less important than the performance of the pack.

It’s kind of ironic that the backs have been the part of England to look good.
Barney McGrew did it
Barney McGrew did it

Posts : 1604
Join date : 2012-02-23
Location : Trumpton

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by BamBam Tue Sep 01, 2015 1:28 pm

A fair few seem to think that the squad was still under intense fitness training up until the second France game, which may explain why they looked so lacking in power

If the same happens this weekend I'll be far more concerned

Anyone know when the teams are likely to be named? The Irish oiks left it very late for their last couple of games, so I assume England will be first

BamBam

Posts : 17226
Join date : 2011-03-17
Age : 34

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by Jimpy Tue Sep 01, 2015 2:36 pm

beshocked wrote:Jimpy we are talking about England vs Ireland, not Ireland vs Wales.

A loss away is not as bad a loss at home - the loss to Wales mattered, a loss to England wouldn't hurt as much as the loss to Wales as a loss to England at home should be expected.

England need to keep winning at home when the tournament starts or they are knocked out.
Ireland have more breathing space because of the easier group - France and Italy are not as strong as Australia and Wales plus there's Fiji too.

The pressure is on England to perform. A 2nd string England beat a 2nd string France but the 1st team got outclassed in France.


Do you have to always be so bloody condescending?

I sincerely doubt a loss to England is 'expected'.

Jimpy

Posts : 2823
Join date : 2012-08-02
Location : Not in a hot sandy place anymore

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by beshocked Tue Sep 01, 2015 3:06 pm

Jimpy wrote:
beshocked wrote:Jimpy we are talking about England vs Ireland, not Ireland vs Wales.

A loss away is not as bad a loss at home - the loss to Wales mattered, a loss to England wouldn't hurt as much as the loss to Wales as a loss to England at home should be expected.

England need to keep winning at home when the tournament starts or they are knocked out.
Ireland have more breathing space because of the easier group - France and Italy are not as strong as Australia and Wales plus there's Fiji too.

The pressure is on England to perform. A 2nd string England beat a 2nd string France but the 1st team got outclassed in France.


Do you have to always be so bloody condescending?

I sincerely doubt a loss to England is 'expected'.

Do you always have to be so confrontational?

To be honest I haven't looked at the odds but I would be surprised if England weren't favourites.

England should win - they are at home - playing a team of similar ability but home advantage is generally a factor. The Irish haven't won at Twickenham since 2010. I would expect it will be tough for Ireland.

Ireland will be kicking themselves for not beating Wales but that's another match. You can go onto the Ireland-Wales thread if you want to chat about the post match analysis there.

beshocked

Posts : 14849
Join date : 2011-03-08

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by Jimpy Tue Sep 01, 2015 3:17 pm

beshocked wrote:
Jimpy wrote:
beshocked wrote:Jimpy we are talking about England vs Ireland, not Ireland vs Wales.

A loss away is not as bad a loss at home - the loss to Wales mattered, a loss to England wouldn't hurt as much as the loss to Wales as a loss to England at home should be expected.

England need to keep winning at home when the tournament starts or they are knocked out.
Ireland have more breathing space because of the easier group - France and Italy are not as strong as Australia and Wales plus there's Fiji too.

The pressure is on England to perform. A 2nd string England beat a 2nd string France but the 1st team got outclassed in France.


Do you have to always be so bloody condescending?

I sincerely doubt a loss to England is 'expected'.

Do you always have to be so confrontational?

To be honest I haven't looked at the odds but I would be surprised if England weren't favourites.

England should win - they are at home - playing a team of similar ability but home advantage is generally a factor. The Irish haven't won at Twickenham since 2010. I would expect it will be tough for Ireland.

Ireland will be kicking themselves for not beating Wales but that's another match. You can go onto the Ireland-Wales thread if you want to chat about the post match analysis there.

Why would I want to do that, the result of that match is equally relevant on this thread as it is there. We're not talking about post-match analysis, the point is the match on Saturday, its entirely valid to discuss it here since the loser will be going into the World Cup off the back of two losses and will determine how the visiting side play. Its all very well saying Ireland haven't beaten England at Twickenham since 2010, but they're more than capable of doing so. Anybody who seriously expects Ireland to go into the match 'expecting' to lose has issues.

Jimpy

Posts : 2823
Join date : 2012-08-02
Location : Not in a hot sandy place anymore

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by Geordie Tue Sep 01, 2015 3:19 pm

BamBam wrote:A fair few seem to think that the squad was still under intense fitness training up until the second France game, which may explain why they looked so lacking in power

If the same happens this weekend I'll be far more concerned

Anyone know when the teams are likely to be named? The Irish oiks left it very late for their last couple of games, so I assume England will be first

Yeah that seemed to be the general consensus.....

I agree however...a weak pack performance and the concern most definitely starts!

Geordie

Posts : 28323
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by yappysnap Tue Sep 01, 2015 4:12 pm

Frak me, the Scotland France thread is on to its fourth page and we've barely made a dozen posts!

Where's this RWC happening?

yappysnap

Posts : 11993
Join date : 2011-06-01
Age : 36
Location : Christchurch, NZ

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by No 7&1/2 Tue Sep 01, 2015 4:16 pm

There's a sense of impending doom. Too many favourites left out and boots to be put in. Knives will be out if we underperform, grudging acceptance if we perform well with the caveat we would have done better if so and so was included. All because of 2 warm ups where our pack has been average to say the least. Some holding back to the Ireland game I'd wager.

Fair?

No 7&1/2

Posts : 31349
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by BamBam Tue Sep 01, 2015 4:20 pm

To be fair, we've been banging on about the same subjects on another 2 threads, whereas the Scots seem a lot better at keeping it all on one.

They're also highly annoyed at some of the squad selections, whereas we've already come to terms with all of that!!

BamBam

Posts : 17226
Join date : 2011-03-17
Age : 34

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by beshocked Tue Sep 01, 2015 4:24 pm

Jimpy wrote:
beshocked wrote:
Jimpy wrote:
beshocked wrote:Jimpy we are talking about England vs Ireland, not Ireland vs Wales.

A loss away is not as bad a loss at home - the loss to Wales mattered, a loss to England wouldn't hurt as much as the loss to Wales as a loss to England at home should be expected.

England need to keep winning at home when the tournament starts or they are knocked out.
Ireland have more breathing space because of the easier group - France and Italy are not as strong as Australia and Wales plus there's Fiji too.

The pressure is on England to perform. A 2nd string England beat a 2nd string France but the 1st team got outclassed in France.


Do you have to always be so bloody condescending?

I sincerely doubt a loss to England is 'expected'.

Do you always have to be so confrontational?

To be honest I haven't looked at the odds but I would be surprised if England weren't favourites.

England should win - they are at home - playing a team of similar ability but home advantage is generally a factor. The Irish haven't won at Twickenham since 2010. I would expect it will be tough for Ireland.

Ireland will be kicking themselves for not beating Wales but that's another match. You can go onto the Ireland-Wales thread if you want to chat about the post match analysis there.

Why would I want to do that, the result of that match is equally relevant on this thread as it is there. We're not talking about post-match analysis, the point is the match on Saturday, its entirely valid to discuss it here since the loser will be going into the World Cup off the back of two losses and will determine how the visiting side play. Its all very well saying Ireland haven't beaten England at Twickenham since 2010, but they're more than capable of doing so. Anybody who seriously expects Ireland to go into the match 'expecting' to lose has issues.

England will start favourites and should win - it's always worse for the favourites to lose. For the underdogs it's not as bad because they are expected to lose. England aren't overwhelming favourites but nonetheless should win at home against an Irish side who just lost to Wales. Of course Ireland can win but they will start as the underdogs.

If you want to bring in the Wales vs Ireland game into the argument then if the Welsh can beat Ireland away then England should be able to beat Ireland at home if England are going to keep pace with the Welsh.

Not saying Ireland should be pleased if they lose but they have an easier RWC pool to look forward to.

It's worse for England as the hosts to have poor warm up matches.


beshocked

Posts : 14849
Join date : 2011-03-08

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by Notch Tue Sep 01, 2015 4:29 pm

Well, if we can out the controversy over the squad selection aside, what are we hoping to see at the weekend?

For me, Zebo and Bowe have to come back into the side, as does Payne at centre. Earls will play no part according to Schmidt, even though he's expected to have cleared the return to play protocols by the weekend they are being cautious. It's important for me that the first choice halfbacks get another game together, and Henshaw needs another game outside Sexton and inside Payne.

Up front, time to give Rory Best a start with our strongest front row. Would like to see Henderson get a chance at 6 and O'Brien must come back into our back row.

Ireland (hopefully)

1. Jack McGrath 2. Rory Best 3. Mike Ross 4. Devin Toner 5. Paul O'Connell (c) 6. Iain Henderson 7. Sean O'Brien 8. Jamie Heaslip 9. Conor Murray 10. Johnny Sexton 11. Simon Zebo 12. Robbie Henshaw 13. Jared Payne 14. Tommy Bowe 15 Rob Kearney

16. Sean Cronin 17. Cian Healy 18. Tadhg Furlong 19. Donnacha Ryan 20. Chris Henry 21. Eoin Reddan 22. Ian Madigan 23. Dave Kearney
Notch
Notch
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 25635
Join date : 2011-02-10
Age : 36
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by No 7&1/2 Tue Sep 01, 2015 4:30 pm

Are Ireland really underdogs for this though? We've both had poor warm ups.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 31349
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by Notch Tue Sep 01, 2015 4:33 pm

beshocked wrote:
If you want to bring in the Wales vs Ireland game into the argument then if the Welsh can beat Ireland away then England should be able to beat Ireland at home if England are going to keep pace with the Welsh.

It just doesn't work like that- any time these sides meet there is about a 7 point margin of error. Ireland were the width of a Welsh players arm away from snatching an undeserved victory and in tight games that can happen. Just because one side beats another side in a very close game doesn't mean that any other side should beat them based on that. If Wales went out and hammered us yes, but it's so close between these three teams that there isn't much to be concluded from that previous match.

I wouldn't call us underdogs really; England are favourites but thats because of home advantage. It's like I give England a 51% chance of winning and us a 49% chance.
Notch
Notch
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 25635
Join date : 2011-02-10
Age : 36
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by beshocked Tue Sep 01, 2015 4:38 pm

Notch you could say that Wales vs Australia there's been a 7 point margin of error but we all know how that head to head has gone!

Depends if you think home advantage generally means nothing or not.

no 7 & 1/2 well they are either underdogs or favourites - cannot be both. I would say they are underdogs yes.

beshocked

Posts : 14849
Join date : 2011-03-08

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by No 7&1/2 Tue Sep 01, 2015 4:40 pm

Just to be pedantic underdog means they have little chance of winning. I'd agree with you that England are slight favs due to home advantage but as Notch says it's close.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 31349
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by Notch Tue Sep 01, 2015 4:41 pm

beshocked wrote:Notch you could say that Wales vs Australia there's been a 7 point margin of error but we all know how that head to head has gone!

Yeah, and if you look at the head to heads between Ireland, England and Wales they haven't gone that way with neither side able to establish a long winning stark over the other for a while now.

I would not say there is a 7 point margin of error between Wales and Australia because the results have consistently come out in favour of one side even if they are close. What I'm saying is the games between us are normally close enough one team coming up with a big play or one mistake can decide the game so predicting it confidently isn't normally possible. When I say '7 point margin of error' I mean we are close enough that one try can completely change the result and a try can come from anywhere really, even if a team is behind or not playing well.


Last edited by Notch on Tue Sep 01, 2015 4:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
Notch
Notch
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 25635
Join date : 2011-02-10
Age : 36
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by Jimpy Tue Sep 01, 2015 4:49 pm

beshocked wrote:
Jimpy wrote:
beshocked wrote:
Jimpy wrote:
beshocked wrote:Jimpy we are talking about England vs Ireland, not Ireland vs Wales.

A loss away is not as bad a loss at home - the loss to Wales mattered, a loss to England wouldn't hurt as much as the loss to Wales as a loss to England at home should be expected.

England need to keep winning at home when the tournament starts or they are knocked out.
Ireland have more breathing space because of the easier group - France and Italy are not as strong as Australia and Wales plus there's Fiji too.

The pressure is on England to perform. A 2nd string England beat a 2nd string France but the 1st team got outclassed in France.


Do you have to always be so bloody condescending?

I sincerely doubt a loss to England is 'expected'.

Do you always have to be so confrontational?

To be honest I haven't looked at the odds but I would be surprised if England weren't favourites.

England should win - they are at home - playing a team of similar ability but home advantage is generally a factor. The Irish haven't won at Twickenham since 2010. I would expect it will be tough for Ireland.

Ireland will be kicking themselves for not beating Wales but that's another match. You can go onto the Ireland-Wales thread if you want to chat about the post match analysis there.

Why would I want to do that, the result of that match is equally relevant on this thread as it is there. We're not talking about post-match analysis, the point is the match on Saturday, its entirely valid to discuss it here since the loser will be going into the World Cup off the back of two losses and will determine how the visiting side play. Its all very well saying Ireland haven't beaten England at Twickenham since 2010, but they're more than capable of doing so. Anybody who seriously expects Ireland to go into the match 'expecting' to lose has issues.

England will start favourites and should win - it's always worse for the favourites to lose. For the underdogs it's not as bad because they are expected to lose. England aren't overwhelming favourites but nonetheless should win at home against an Irish side who just lost to Wales. Of course Ireland can win but they will start as the underdogs.

If you want to bring in the Wales vs Ireland game into the argument then if the Welsh can beat Ireland away then England should be able to beat Ireland at home if England are going to keep pace with the Welsh.

Not saying Ireland should be pleased if they lose but they have an easier RWC pool to look forward to.

It's worse for England as the hosts to have poor warm up matches.


Okay. Whatever. Nonetheless, as others have rightly pointed out, just because side A beats side B, doesn't mean side B will be beaten by side C because side C have a home advantage or are perceived to be a better team than 'A', or some other spurious reason.

Jimpy

Posts : 2823
Join date : 2012-08-02
Location : Not in a hot sandy place anymore

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by beshocked Tue Sep 01, 2015 4:56 pm

Notch it's not 51-49% - can't ignore home advantage.

I would say it's 60-40% in England's favour.

42 won, 17 lost at Twickenham - 42/59 - statistically England have a win rate of 71% at Twickenham vs Ireland overall so that's me being generous to Ireland to give them 60-40% if we take into account overall record.

If we are doing the last 5 matches at Twickenham - 3 wins for England, 2 for Ireland - 60%

Last 10 matches -7/10 to England - 70%.

Nothing there suggests 51%-49%.

Oh and Ireland haven't won at Twickenham since 2010.

England and Ireland could be argued to be on parity at a neutral venue but at Twickenham not a chance.

beshocked

Posts : 14849
Join date : 2011-03-08

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by Notch Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:03 pm

Lots of those stats just aren't relevant to these specific teams with these specific coaches. Looking at the balance of the last three games I stand by my view point that one score at the right time would be enough to totally change the direction of the match. You have to go back to 2012 to find a game where one side was clearly much better than the other and it was reflected on the scoreboard, so the question I would ask is whether or not you feel Ireland have progressed since that point.


Last edited by Notch on Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
Notch
Notch
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 25635
Join date : 2011-02-10
Age : 36
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by stub Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:10 pm

So has anyone got a score prediction for the match? I know teams haven't been announced yet but I reckon a narrow win for England 20-15 or thereabouts.

stub

Posts : 2226
Join date : 2013-01-31

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by beshocked Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:10 pm

Notch

Okay I've got a stat relevant - the last time Schmidt's Ireland played at Twickenham they lost.

England have had a week off, Ireland are coming off a loss to Wales at home - that's the way things are.

If you ignore home advantage then yes it's probably 51% 49% England but you have to factor it in.

Stub that's probably a good prediction.

I would say something like 24-18 to England.

beshocked

Posts : 14849
Join date : 2011-03-08

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by Notch Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:12 pm

beshocked wrote:Notch

Okay I've got a stat relevant - the last time Schmidt's Ireland played at Twickenham they lost.

Yes. By three points. One might say England were 1% better in a very close-fought even game. Hence justifying my expectation of the same.
Notch
Notch
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 25635
Join date : 2011-02-10
Age : 36
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

England v Ireland, 5 September Empty Re: England v Ireland, 5 September

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 12 1, 2, 3 ... 10, 11, 12  Next

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum