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Manny Pacquiao

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Post by BoxingFan88 Sun 19 Jul 2015, 7:51 pm

I get the feeling that Pacquiao doesn't get enough credit for his skills, I was just as guilty as anyone for this, but he is a lot lot better than we give him credit for.

I found a great video showing exactly how good Pacquiao is against Mayweather and regardless of what you thought of the result and whether you agree with what is said in the video, its a real eye opener to see the level of skill Pacquiao has. I for one didn't see half of what Pacquiao did against Mayweather and its pretty dam impressive.

Here is the link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TqT3lNvgIc

This guy seriously knows his stuff and a lot of his other videos have really given me a much better understanding of boxing.

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Post by Pound-for-Pound Sun 19 Jul 2015, 8:08 pm

Everyone knows that Pacquiao doesn't get the credit he deserves for his performance, he did pretty well for 6 rounds. I think I had it 3 a piece by that point.
But guys like this need to just stop; there should be no doubt over who won that fight and watching it at 1/10th the speed to try and find any punch that slightly lands (the power and effect is difficult to even tell at that speed) is just stupid. If they want to do that, they at least need to make a fair video that shows the punches thrown and landed by both fighters throughout each round. But the kind of people who make these videos aren't going to because they know what it would show.

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Post by AdamT Sun 19 Jul 2015, 8:13 pm

Pacquiao is amazing. Atg and really exciting. Floyd's better, no shame in that.

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Post by Derbymanc Sun 19 Jul 2015, 8:14 pm

If you think Pacs not getting the respect he deserves then what about Mayweather, seems there's another video every week trying to 'prove' that he only just beat Pac.

Good fighter but I think he's been a tad overrated (still the clear no.2 mind) and Mayweather shown he didn't have as good a boxing brain as people thought. Mayweather never really got out of 2nd gear.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 19 Jul 2015, 8:29 pm

BoxingFan88 wrote:I get the feeling that Pacquiao doesn't get enough credit for his skills, I was just as guilty as anyone for this, but he is a lot lot better than we give him credit for.

I found a great video showing exactly how good Pacquiao is against Mayweather and regardless of what you thought of the result and whether you agree with what is said in the video, its a real eye opener to see the level of skill Pacquiao has. I for one didn't see half of what Pacquiao did against Mayweather and its pretty dam impressive.

Here is the link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TqT3lNvgIc

This guy seriously knows his stuff and a lot of his other videos have really given me a much better understanding of boxing.

He gets plenty of credit..........You don't think he does because you're a fanboy...

He's in my top 20 of alltime..

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sun 19 Jul 2015, 8:36 pm

Let me guess another fan video trying to make out the fight was close by slowing everything down to a silly level and focusing solely on Pacquiao?

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Post by RanjitPatel Sun 19 Jul 2015, 9:20 pm

Pacquiao fans are unbelievable. Seems they want to make a case for Floyd winning the fight in real time and Manny winning in slow motion. Very sad people.

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Post by BoxingFan88 Sun 19 Jul 2015, 9:24 pm

Pound-for-Pound wrote:Everyone knows that Pacquiao doesn't get the credit he deserves for his performance, he did pretty well for 6 rounds. I think I had it 3 a piece by that point.
But guys like this need to just stop; there should be no doubt over who won that fight and watching it at 1/10th the speed to try and find any punch that slightly lands (the power and effect is difficult to even tell at that speed) is just stupid. If they want to do that, they at least need to make a fair video that shows the punches thrown and landed by both fighters throughout each round. But the kind of people who make these videos aren't going to because they know what it would show.

He does, its in the video.... its not made up

If you watch the video, the one who is "Slightly landing" as you put it is Floyd not Pacquiao, the video doesn't lie its not edited to make Pacquiao look better, he shows you all the contacts.

I can't see the fight at full speed, they are too quick for the naked eye, I'm not trying to change opinions, I'm just showing you that the fight is a lot different than the one that gets frequently described.


Last edited by BoxingFan88 on Sun 19 Jul 2015, 9:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Pound-for-Pound Sun 19 Jul 2015, 9:28 pm

BoxingFan88 wrote:
Pound-for-Pound wrote:Everyone knows that Pacquiao doesn't get the credit he deserves for his performance, he did pretty well for 6 rounds. I think I had it 3 a piece by that point.
But guys like this need to just stop; there should be no doubt over who won that fight and watching it at 1/10th the speed to try and find any punch that slightly lands (the power and effect is difficult to even tell at that speed) is just stupid. If they want to do that, they at least need to make a fair video that shows the punches thrown and landed by both fighters throughout each round. But the kind of people who make these videos aren't going to because they know what it would show.

He does, its in the video.... its not made up

You think a guy who spent pretty much all of the video that I could stand to watch shouting about how Pacquiao gave Mayweather an "ass-whooping" really edited together a fair video? The guy is a deranged fanboy, nobody got their ass whooped in that fight, especially not the victor.

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Post by Derbymanc Sun 19 Jul 2015, 9:30 pm

And Mayweather shrugged off every punch, kept his distance and belittled the grandiose Manny who then had to moan about a shoulder injury that hadn't been declared and then claim that Mayweather should be more humble picard

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Post by BoxingFan88 Sun 19 Jul 2015, 9:33 pm

Derbymanc wrote:And Mayweather shrugged off every punch, kept his distance and belittled the grandiose Manny who then had to moan about a shoulder injury that hadn't been declared and then claim that Mayweather should be more humble picard

He shrugged off every punch? Not what I saw, watch his legs when Pacquiao makes contact

So if he shows the contact from each round for BOTH fighters, how is it not fair?

Forget the shoulder injury, I didn't even mention it, its about what happened in the ring.

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Post by Derbymanc Sun 19 Jul 2015, 9:50 pm

I did and he moved out of the way as befuddled pac wondered where he'd gone.

There's clutching at straws and then there's slowing a fight down as slow as possible whilst screaming over the top of it to give the opinion that your fella's the best.

He got beat and the majority of fans/writers/experts agreed with it, it's now just the desperate trying to turn it into a Manny victory, moreso because of the meek way he went out.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sun 19 Jul 2015, 10:04 pm

You can twist a fight any which way you want with a video like that it proves nothing aside from showing how sad and biased fans are of their own boxers.

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Post by BoxingFan88 Sun 19 Jul 2015, 11:31 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:You can twist a fight any which way you want with a video like that it proves nothing aside from showing how sad and biased fans are of their own boxers.

If you can do that, then why is there no video of Floyd doing the same, I admit he is a bit angry, probably because the Floyd fans have been on cloud coo coo land with regards to the fight, so he goes a bit over the top.

However if you look at the footage objectively, it shows that Pacquiao did a lot more than just be Floyds play thing. Excellent counter punching and making Floyd miss just as much. Pacquiao also lands the more effective shots.

Everyone expected Pacquiao to throw 100's of punches, that was never ever his plan. He was a lot more educated in there than I thought he would be. Its a really great watch between two highly skilled technicians in the ring.

Pacquiao shows he can lead and he can counter effectively

It depends what you are looking for, but this fight was seriously close, however I'm VERY open to be convinced otherwise if you can point me in the direction, after all I just want to learn as much as I can. The best argument thus far for floyd is..

Domination
Easy Work
You don't know anything about boxing
Masterclass
10-2

You also say that we can be swung by videos that point in a certain direction, wasn't that what the Sky team did ever since they decided the result of the fight before it even happened?

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Post by 88Chris05 Sun 19 Jul 2015, 11:36 pm

I've heard a lot about these slowed-down videos of the Pacquiao-Mayweather fight and how they supposedly prove that Pacquiao was jobbed, that he landed more shots, that Mayweather's performance was more style than substance and all that jazz. Made a point of not watching any of them as a lot of hardcore Pacquiao or Mayweather fanatics can't be trusted to be anything close to even-handed and objective, and more importantly because no amount of agenda-ridden stuff is going to convince me that a Mayweather win wasn't the correct result.

It's wound me up that all of sudden (and just by coincidence in relation to a fight where one man's defeat would spell a massive load of heartache and humiliation for his notoriously passionate fanbase) we're supposed to tear up our previous ideas of how to score a fight and what consitutes good boxing, just because certain individuals are feeling red-faced about the fact that the man they've dubbed a coward and a fraud has beaten their poverty-fighting, God-fearing and giant-slaying hero. That's how I saw it, anyhow.

But hey, we're all only human. Your thread here got the better of my curiosity, BF88, so I decided to just skip to a random point of the video you've posted and watch a few minutes of it, just to get a feel and to see if it's as deserving of scorn as I imagined it would be.

Maybe I just got unlucky and by chance picked out the few minutes where the video's creator lost his objectivity, but sorry pal, the part I saw seemed a bit one-eyed and biased in my opinion. In the small snippet I saw, the guy refused to count a good two or three decent Mayweather shots because they were "pushing shots" or "grazing" but would then instantly note down a "clean shot on the chin" or something from Pacquiao which was every bit as light and grazing as the ones he refused to count for Mayweather. There was also a little exchange he looked at in which Manny followed Floyd to the ropes - and while Floyd clearly landed the better shots before moving out of trouble, the maker of this video came out with something along the lines of, "Well, Mayweather landed some nice shots, but if one guy keeps punching (and hitting thin air, which he didn't mention for reasons best known to himself) while the other guy is just running away, then who has really got the better of the exchange?"

Like I said, I saw only a small amount of what you posted before I lost patience with it, but it seems to me as if concepts such as defence and ring generalship aren't really considered, although obviously you'll be able to tell me what's what on that front. To clarify, I don't at all buy in to the die-hard Mayweather fans who call his performance on May 2 a masterclass or domination etc, and I don't agree that this fight categorically proves that Mayweather wouldn't have had anything to worry about against a 2009 / 2010 Pacquiao, either. I just saw Mayweather winning a competitive but not especially close fight which would have been a lot more competitive and exciting had it happened half a decade before - but he did win it and Pacquiao was a definite second best regardless of that.

On to the overall point, though, Pacquiao hasn't quite got enough credit in some quarters for the finer elements of his game that he and Roach brought in and which peaked back in that aforementioned 2009 / 2010 period. He's generally got enough credit for his achievements and resume, don't get me wrong, but some people have seemed a bit slow in realising that he's become (or became) more than just a straight up, all-action brawler. His hand speed, explosiveness, stamina and power were always his calling cards, but while he was never Migel Canto in the pure boxing or technical stakes he did develop a good technical side to his game which, alligned with those aforementioned physical traits, made a superb fighter at the highest level for many years, and an absolutely phenomenal, all-time great one for two or three in the middle of that spell.

I tend to think his performances against Cotto, Margarito and Algieri are particularly good indicators of the more traditional boxing skills he ended up having in his arsenal.  In those fights you see Pacquiao countering, picking shots, bouncing off the ropes to make space and get out of harm's way, catching and parrying shots, feinting, moving his head well, jabbing etc.

The Cotto performance is, in my opinion, still one of the greatest showings of our era. Pacquiao was just absolutely incredible that night.
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Post by Hammersmith harrier Mon 20 Jul 2015, 12:04 am

BoxingFan88 wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:You can twist a fight any which way you want with a video like that it proves nothing aside from showing how sad and biased fans are of their own boxers.

If you can do that, then why is there no video of Floyd doing the same, I admit he is a bit angry, probably because the Floyd fans have been on cloud coo coo land with regards to the fight, so he goes a bit over the top.

However if you look at the footage objectively, it shows that Pacquiao did a lot more than just be Floyds play thing. Excellent counter punching and making Floyd miss just as much. Pacquiao also lands the more effective shots.

Everyone expected Pacquiao to throw 100's of punches, that was never ever his plan. He was a lot more educated in there than I thought he would be. Its a really great watch between two highly skilled technicians in the ring.

Pacquiao shows he can lead and he can counter effectively

It depends what you are looking for, but this fight was seriously close, however I'm VERY open to be convinced otherwise if you can point me in the direction, after all I just want to learn as much as I can. The best argument thus far for floyd is..

Domination
Easy Work
You don't know anything about boxing
Masterclass
10-2

You also say that we can be swung by videos that point in a certain direction, wasn't that what the Sky team did ever since they decided the result of the fight before it even happened?

The video of Mayweather doing it is in real time because that is where any sane boxing fan can see who clearly won the fight, slowing it down to suit your opinion and suit what you wanted to happen doesn't make it any less biased or garbage.

It's at the moment you say that the fight was very close that to be honest I can't take your opinion seriously and to quote you shows you don't know anything about boxing and an easy nights work it indeed was for Mayweather.

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Post by dangerous_mouse Mon 20 Jul 2015, 12:22 am

Pacquiao got cancelled in that fight, you could see it in his face. Mayweather was not allowing him to get his combos in, every time manny would begin a combo mayweather timed him every time and got a right hand in.

I once came across a video of khan vs maidana, it was edited to the point where a college of mine who hadn't watched the fight was amazed that khan got the decision.

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Post by Atila Mon 20 Jul 2015, 6:27 am

Manny Pacquiao blasted over failure to attend doctor's appointment to assess damage from Floyd Mayweather defeat
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/boxing/index.html

Manny Pacquiao has been blasted as unprofessional by his promoter Bob Arum after missing an appointment to see his doctor. Pacquiao is in rehab after having surgery on a torn rotator cuff sustained during his unanimous points defeat to Floyd Mayweather in May. But Pacquiao cancelled a check-up with surgeon Neal ElAttrache at the Kerlan-Jobe Orthopedic Clinic in Los Angeles on July 4 and instead travelled to Indonesia where he visited Mary Jane Veloso, who was sentenced to death after being arrested in 2009 with 2.6kg of heroin in her suitcase.

But Arum insisted Pacquiao should have been more focused on getting fit again.
‘As far as I’m concerned he’s not an active fighter,’ Arum said on Saturday night. ‘Pacquiao was supposed to come over to see the doctor and for some reason he decided to cancel it. So he’s not acting very professionally.

‘When you have an operation like that you’ve got to get into rehab. You’ve got to get the doctor to look at it and to guide you as to the kind of rehab that you’ve got to do.

‘He’s a grown man and he makes his own decisions but as far as I’m concerned he’ s not an active fighter.’

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Post by Herman Jaeger Mon 20 Jul 2015, 8:07 am

Manny trying to save someone's life and Arum blasts him for missing a medical. Unbelievable!

Bob needs to have a word with himself.

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Post by wheelchair1991 Mon 20 Jul 2015, 8:28 am

This is uncle bob we are talking about nothing suprises me

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Post by Herman Jaeger Mon 20 Jul 2015, 8:34 am

wheelchair1991 wrote:This is uncle bob we are talking about nothing suprises me


I know ! His obsession with money is like an illness. Can't quite believe he could criticise Manny in this instance.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 20 Jul 2015, 9:12 am

I slowed down Vitali vs Danny Williams............Greatest come from behind KO I've ever seen !!..

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Post by Dipper Brown Mon 20 Jul 2015, 9:28 am

Haven't got time for conspiracy theories. Floyd won at least 8 of the rounds clearly. Move on.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 20 Jul 2015, 9:36 am

If I slowed down the last argument I had with my Wife..........You could clearly see I came out on top !!... Manny Pacquiao 3559488474

Manny fans.......I think he's a legend and there is no shame in losing to a fellow legend....Only time he let himself down was after pocketing all those millions he said he wasn't fit !!

People paid good money for that fight !!......Very very poor show..

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Post by Dipper Brown Mon 20 Jul 2015, 10:02 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote: Only time he let himself down was after pocketing all those millions he said he wasn't fit !!

People paid good money for that fight !!......Very very poor show..

100% agreement with that. Hope he loses every penny from his fight purse fighting the lawsuits.

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Post by Marlonz Tue 28 Jul 2015, 11:33 pm

BoxingFan88 wrote:I get the feeling that Pacquiao doesn't get enough credit for his skills, I was just as guilty as anyone for this, but he is a lot lot better than we give him credit for.

I found a great video showing exactly how good Pacquiao is against Mayweather and regardless of what you thought of the result and whether you agree with what is said in the video, its a real eye opener to see the level of skill Pacquiao has. I for one didn't see half of what Pacquiao did against Mayweather and its pretty dam impressive.

Here is the link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TqT3lNvgIc

This guy seriously knows his stuff and a lot of his other videos have really given me a much better understanding of boxing.
Whether this guy is a Pactard or not is neither here nor there because he backs himself up and makes a compelling case here. Floyd got the win and probably deserved it, but the fight was close, I could see that watching it on the night. Floyd landed his lowest total punches (148) in a 12 round fight by the way, so Pac must have been doing something right.

Agree that the SKY team were incredibly biased - Round 8 for instance (By this point Floyd is supposed to have "adjusted") Pac stuns Floyd with a left hand to such a degree that he is able to double up on it FFS! Probably the most head rattling, sweat flying moment of the fight, blatantly obvious in real time let alone slow mo yet the commentators completely ignored it. As for the slow motion being invalid, well, it is used in other sports - basketball, football, baseball for close calls and if it clearly shows what does and does not land, it's justified. Especially as he shows a lot of punches that Floyd either misses or Pac manages to block with his gloves - showing an underrated defence from Pac at the very least. Also, when both guys punches are slowed down, Pac's actually look the more eye catching, though few and far between of course.

For me though, rather than try to claim that Pac won, I'd look at this vid as an opportunity to prove that he did'nt miss as the mainstream narrative would have us believe. Considering he was supposedly "outclassed" and "dominated", I find it interesting that most of his shots were counters too.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Tue 28 Jul 2015, 11:37 pm

It's a crap video used by the anti Mayweather brigade to try and detract from his comfortable and easy win. It does not highlight anything other than the ridiculous depths some will go to try and prove their pre fight talk to be right.

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Post by Marlonz Tue 28 Jul 2015, 11:42 pm

I doubt you've watched the video and I doubt you've even given the fight another look since May. Whilst I agree that Floyd won, it was'nt a "comfortable and easy win". You don't get nailed with counter doubled up left hands and straight lefts through the guard in rounds 8 - 12 if that's the case.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Tue 28 Jul 2015, 11:46 pm

I've watched plenty of biased slo mo videos on the fight and none of them prove a damn thing, you cannot judge a fight in slow motion, all context and reason is lost. You wanted Pacquiao to win so are blindly finding anything you can to back you up.

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Post by BoxingFan88 Wed 29 Jul 2015, 8:27 am

This post was never about proving that Mayweather lost the fight, the guy in the video gets a bit angry because of all the Floyd Mayweather fan boys he has had to deal with.

Its about showing you that the fight is a lot closer than the scorecards showed and trying to show you that Pacquiao is better than a face first brawler who throws 1000 punches in a fight.

Floyd shut down some of Pacquiaos offence, so what? You have to capitalise on that and he didn't really do that, boxing at the end of the day is about landing clean punches.

Its a very close fight, you can give it to either man based on what you like, I still think Floyd won, but not by much.

However calling it an easy fight or in your words "comfortable and easy win" is quite laughable really

Or did the video make up the contact points?

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Post by RanjitPatel Wed 29 Jul 2015, 9:04 am

You can't give the fight to either man, only to Mayweather.

Pacquiao lost and lost clearly. Coming to any other conclusion is sad and pathetic. Leave it go.

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Post by Marlonz Wed 29 Jul 2015, 1:00 pm

RanjitPatel wrote:You can't give the fight to either man, only to Mayweather.

Pacquiao lost and lost clearly. Coming to any other conclusion is sad and pathetic. Leave it go.
No. Stating the fact that Mayweather, a master adjuster, got rocked from counter punches, several times particularly in the last 3rd of the fight is simply pointing out that by that virtue he did not win "clearly" and that Pacquiao must have been using more than just 1 dimensional brawling to forge those moments. Ken Norton lost 2 out of 3 fights vs Ali, yet nobody who says those were far from comfortable victories for Ali is labelled as "sad and pathetic" because they have a valid point. It's the principle of the thing and the way that what actually took place in the fight is not being acknowledged honestly. It's still a win for Floyd, but if you watch those moments I and Boxingfan88 are talking about and say it was "easy and comfortable" for Floyd, you are lying.

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Post by hampo17 Wed 29 Jul 2015, 1:57 pm

So you're saying if you watch a video made by a Pacquiao fan, designed to highlight the small amount of good work he did in that fight, it'll look closer?

The fight wasn't close, wasn't a shut out but Pacquiao certainly got beat and to say "you could give it to either man depending on what you like" is ridiculous.

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Post by BoxingFan88 Wed 29 Jul 2015, 5:27 pm

PaulHv2 wrote:So you're saying if you watch a video made by a Pacquiao fan, designed to highlight the small amount of good work he did in that fight, it'll look closer?

The fight wasn't close, wasn't a shut out but Pacquiao certainly got beat and to say "you could give it to either man depending on what you like" is ridiculous.

As soon as someone criticises Floyd Mayweather in anyway shape or form they are called a fan boy. The guy who made the video is not a Pacquiao fan, he has done the exact same thing for the Bradley vs Pacquiao fight to show the same sort of idea that HBO were badly wrong.

I'm open to have my opinion changed though, no one has actually told me why Floyd won this fight so easily apart from saying he nullified Pacquiao's offence, which he did to a degree, clearly not entirely as the video shows you. Its one thing to nullify your opponents offence, its another to do something effective yourself, which Floyd didn't really do either.

Ring generalship is not a primary scoring criteria, boxing after all is about landing clean punches, so if you can avoid getting hit, but do nothing to punish your opponent for it, then how is that "dominating" a fight?

The video shows a complete round by round from 1-10 so far, there is another video for the first half... how is that "highlighting a small amount of good work"

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Post by Duty281 Wed 29 Jul 2015, 5:55 pm

Load of biased twaddle.

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Post by Derbymanc Wed 29 Jul 2015, 7:56 pm

So he did it to prove that Bradley had beaten Pac, can't be that biased then, although at least these slowed down videos show the twaddle that was 'that shoulder injury'.

Pac lost fair and square, the bleating still going on about it shows how sad some fans can be. Floyd proved he was the clear no.1 and Pac can't take a loss.

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Manny Pacquiao Empty Re: Manny Pacquiao

Post by Rowley Wed 29 Jul 2015, 9:20 pm

A video that slows the Mayweather vs Pacquiao fight down? It was slow enough in real time thanks!

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Manny Pacquiao Empty Re: Manny Pacquiao

Post by BoxingFan88 Wed 29 Jul 2015, 10:53 pm

Rowley wrote:A video that slows the Mayweather vs Pacquiao fight down? It was slow enough in real time thanks!

Haha

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Manny Pacquiao Empty Re: Manny Pacquiao

Post by Lance Wed 29 Jul 2015, 11:00 pm

Some of the Mayweather fans are just as bad as the Pac fans. He won, but it was not exciting and it was not total dominance. Move on

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