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Mark Hammett (Blues) on regional rugby

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Mark Hammett (Blues) on regional rugby Empty Mark Hammett (Blues) on regional rugby

Post by Guest Tue 25 Nov 2014, 8:42 pm


Cardiff Blues' Kiwi coach outlines why Welsh game "would be closer to where we were 15 years ago, as opposed to where we are today"

Cardiff Blues coach Mark Hammett believes Welsh rugby is 15 years behind New Zealand when it comes to planning and preparing for games.

The 29-times capped Blacks hooker has joined the great Welsh fitness debate by insisting players must be physically ready for the demands of Test match rugby when they turn up for international training under Warren Gatland.

The former New Zealand star argues the preparation methods he found at the Arms Park on arriving from Down Under were light years away from the star-studded Hurricanes Super 15 outfit he left behind to come to Wales.

Steve Hansen’s men defeated Gatland’s Wales 34-16 at the Millennium Stadium, lasting the pace of a gruelling encounter much better by scoring 19 unanswered points in the closing moments.

In doing so, New Zealand categorically wrenched the game away from Wales and dashed dreams of a first triumph over the men in black for 61 years.

Try-scorers Beauden Barrett (two) and Julian Savea were just two of the starters from Saturday who played under Hammett during the Super 15 season just finished for the Hurricanes, with Conrad Smith and Dane Coles among the other aces on his books at the Wellington-based franchise.

And the no-nonsense Hammett expressed his amazement Gatland has had to put a gruelling fitness regime in place with Wales to get players up to speed for taking on the best teams in the world this November.

“The big thing from a rugby perspective here is the way they train and prepare would be closer to where we (New Zealand rugby) were 15 years ago, as opposed to where we are today,” said Hammett.

“That doesn’t mean there aren’t outstanding footballers here in Wales, but in terms of raising the whole level, I don’t think our club is quite where we need to be.

“I have a big concern when I hear ‘Gats’ has to bring players in and work the backsides off them for two weeks.

“The Blacks don’t come in from Super Rugby and you suddenly have to get them fit. Because there’s so much depth there’s always a fight for positions. It needs to change here – I agree with that. I speak for this region and that’s one of the things we need to get right.

“I’m asking do we have players with the desire to perform week-in, week-out? To play in horrible wet weather and give everything? Do we have the right mix? Those are the questions I’m asking.

“If you happen to be a New Zealand player there’s massive pressure. The fear of losing has been the biggest motivator of the team over the years rather than the challenge and excitement of winning. It’s what keeps New Zealand strong and at the top of the game.

“It’s a huge responsibility when you are in the team because you don’t want to be the first to lose to Scotland and Ireland. You don’t even want close games.”

Hammett, known in New Zealand as ‘Hammer’ for his honesty and straight-talking, also believes his Welsh players have had the flair coached out of them.

He maintained they dwell on and highlight their errors, and those of their team-mates, rather than move on and encourage each other.

“His findings mirror those of Gatland’s fitness gurus as the Wales boss attempted to put his finger on the reasons why Wales fell away on Saturday after leading 16-15 with just under 11 minutes left on the clock at the Millennium Stadium.

Wales conceded another four tries during the closing New Zealand onslaught with Gatland saying: “We look at the GPS numbers and they’re probably used to playing at that intensity, right at the very edge.

“These are games you’re playing against the best teams in the world and we’ve grasped every opportunity to try and play New Zealand, Australia and South Africa because that’s the way we play better.

“Playing in that white-hot atmosphere, conditions and intensity of international rugby is the way these players will continue to improve.”

He had warned before the opening autumn clash with Australia: “Sometimes our players are coming to us with not quite the same numbers, so we have to try to replicate that at training.

“The advantage the southern hemisphere teams have is the metres run per minute in Super Rugby is a lot higher, so when they transfer over to international rugby there is not a big jump.

“Sometimes it’s (figures) the same. For us, the jump from regional rugby here is massive.

“In international rugby, you are looking at an average of about 75 metres per minute covered which is about the same as Super Rugby and the average we are looking at in regional rugby is about 55-60 per minute.

“That doesn’t seem a lot, but over 80 minutes it does take a bit of time to get used to it.

“That’s why our training is geared to that high-speed tempo so we don’t get the shock we have experienced in the past.

“We know it’s coming and we have tried to address it in the past but there’s no substitute for playing. You can try and replicate it, which we try and do, but the easiest thing is to play at that intensity and that level.

“That’s why we have shown an improvement in the past against the southern hemisphere sides as the weeks have gone on.”

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-rugby-15-years-behind-8174921

Thoughts? I think there is an element of truth to the whole thing, if the Welsh internationals spend most of their time training for fitness it doesn't leave a lot of room for other things such as basic skills and what not. So how do we increase the intensity of the Pro12 so that these guys are playing at the intensity they need to play at? Or is it purely a psychological thing and maybe we're just too lazy?

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Post by bedfordwelsh Tue 25 Nov 2014, 9:08 pm

Said before by many people we now have gym monkeys very few have rugby brains.
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Post by stevetynant Tue 25 Nov 2014, 9:14 pm

He's right why at elite level are professional athletes being beasted because their fitness levels are not up to scratch it's an absolute waste of time when they have so little prep time to begin with.what I don't understand is why gatland is not in closer touch with the regions to ensure that fitness levels are where they should be before they get into camp not once thy are there there's no excuses for that in my opinion for full time professional sportsmen.

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Post by Kingshu Tue 25 Nov 2014, 9:17 pm

Can't find the link now in the Irish times I think it was but Copeland did say about Cardiff blues when he moved to Munster,

http://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read/s170.htm?221,14887296

"It's a weird attitude (with the Blues) he says, "they don't realise the work that they have to put in and the potential they have to go somewhere, whereas here there is so much expectation and standards are set so high"


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Post by Kingshu Tue 25 Nov 2014, 9:34 pm

Sorry should have put the above in context, instead of it being a Pro 12 issue it may be a regional issue as Irish and Scotish players didn't get pulled up over fitness over the international break.

Possibly it could also be down to tactics, as Gatland for years has been pushing the fitness of the squad with ice treatment and bootcamps in Poland ect to make them one of the best conditioned teams in the world

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-2115160/Six-Nations-2012-Wales-fittest-rugby-teams-world-years.html

"In that time Wales have transformed from a side that used to fade and tire in the final quarter of a match to become arguably the fittest on the planet."

I actually find it strange that fitness is being blamed for the loss as for years up to it, Wales have been praised as one of the fittest in the World?

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Post by bedfordwelsh Tue 25 Nov 2014, 9:57 pm

stevetynant wrote:He's right why at elite level are professional athletes being beasted because their fitness levels are not up to scratch it's an absolute waste of time when they have so little prep time to begin with.what I don't understand is why gatland is not in closer touch with the regions to ensure that fitness levels are where they should be before they get into camp not once thy are there there's no excuses for that in my opinion for full time professional sportsmen.

Steve,

The Union and Regions haven't had the best of working relationships of late so maybe that played a part.
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Post by bedfordwelsh Tue 25 Nov 2014, 9:59 pm

I don't think its fitness I think its a lack of basic skills and a rugby thinking brain. Reading some of the reports from Englands games as well it seemed they had loads possesion/territory but didn't know what to do with it.
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Post by Guest Tue 25 Nov 2014, 10:08 pm

The WRU and the regions haven't, but that's no excuse for Gatland etc not keeping track of things.


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Post by bedfordwelsh Tue 25 Nov 2014, 11:14 pm

Risca Rev wrote:The WRU and the regions haven't, but that's no excuse for Gatland etc not keeping track of things.


Agreed but if the Regions sore him as a member of the Union they might not co-operate freely with him or like an outsider s oto speak coming in and telling them their doing wrong.
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Post by aucklandlaurie Wed 26 Nov 2014, 6:56 am


Maybe the interviewer could go back and reinterview Hammett when the Blues have won some serious silverware. then his solutions will have context to Welsh rugby.

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Post by Guest Wed 26 Nov 2014, 9:38 am

bedfordwelsh wrote:I don't think its fitness I think its a lack of basic skills and a rugby thinking brain.  Reading some of the reports from Englands games as well it seemed they had loads possesion/territory but didn't know what to do with it.

The top guys have been playing since they were kids, why haven't the majority developed a Rugby brain? Why is it that the NZ forwards can slot into the backline and know how to draw the man and pass but our guys can't?

There is a video with Dave Tate, a powerlifting coach who talks about how in American schools, coaches tended to favour the bigger and more mature kids to play for the team and run drills, where as the smaller kids would have to go and practice skills, what happened was, that when those kids who had spent the majority of their time practicing skills grew up and matured, they had a huge advantage over the big kids who did nothing.

Is there too much of an emphasis in Wales on "being physical' and picking the bigger players throughout the age grades?

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Post by Impossible Standards Wed 26 Nov 2014, 12:57 pm

Is there too much of an emphasis in Wales on "being physical' and picking the bigger players throughout the age grades?

Absolutely spot on. I know 2 WRU trained coaches who both speak very highly of a weight grade system like in NZ and not an age grade system. They have mentioned examples of kids who don't have the right skill levels being selected by academies as they were physically dominate through their age groups. I cannot believe the WRU still operate with age grade systems. IMO I think there needs to be a switch. I also think hammet has a point about fitness too but I believe our issue is also to do with game management, basic skills and also less of a player pool to choose from.
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Post by Guest Wed 26 Nov 2014, 8:15 pm

Watching the Ryan Crotty try vs Ireland last year, how many Welsh hookers could have set that try up like Coles did? I can name, maybe, 1 - Kristian Dacey. The rest would have tried to drive for the line and squander the opportunity.

That right there is the difference, if our forwards were more skilful we wouldn't waste as many opportunities

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Post by Seagultaf Thu 27 Nov 2014, 12:02 pm

A Kiwi saying the NZ system is better than the Welsh system......surely not!!!!

Also I have not seen any improvement in Cardiff Blues since Hammett came on board, maybe even worse than their form end of last season when they won 5 games on the trot.........excuses maybe???????????

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 27 Nov 2014, 12:05 pm

IronMike wrote:Watching the Ryan Crotty try vs Ireland last year, how many Welsh hookers could have set that try up like Coles did? I can name, maybe, 1 - Kristian Dacey. The rest would have tried to drive for the line and squander the opportunity.

That right there is the difference, if our forwards were more skilful we wouldn't waste as many opportunities

Well, he is a Merthyr boy after all. Yahoo


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Post by ScarletSpiderman Thu 27 Nov 2014, 12:33 pm

IronMike wrote:Watching the Ryan Crotty try vs Ireland last year, how many Welsh hookers could have set that try up like Coles did? I can name, maybe, 1 - Kristian Dacey. The rest would have tried to drive for the line and squander the opportunity.

That right there is the difference, if our forwards were more skilful we wouldn't waste as many opportunities

Don't forget Ken too.

To be honest one of our biggest problems internationally is literally a BIG problem. We have forgotten all about skills, passing etc, and now just go for bulk and brute force.

I said to the misses when the All Blacks scored from the cross field kick "the ball is fast than the man, why the fupp can't we remember that". We have plenty of talented natural runners of the ball. We have the likes of Matthew Morgan, Hook, Jordan Williams etc, but we are frightened to use them.
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Post by Seagultaf Thu 27 Nov 2014, 12:46 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
IronMike wrote:Watching the Ryan Crotty try vs Ireland last year, how many Welsh hookers could have set that try up like Coles did? I can name, maybe, 1 - Kristian Dacey. The rest would have tried to drive for the line and squander the opportunity.

That right there is the difference, if our forwards were more skilful we wouldn't waste as many opportunities

Don't forget Ken too.

To be honest one of our biggest problems internationally is literally a BIG problem.  We have forgotten all about skills, passing etc, and now just go for bulk and brute force.

I said to the misses when the All Blacks scored from the cross field kick "the ball is fast than the man, why the fupp can't we remember that".  We have plenty of talented natural runners of the ball.  We have the likes of Matthew Morgan, Hook, Jordan Williams etc, but we are frightened to use them.

Backs need front foot ball but Wales against NZ were trying to attack from behind the gainline. Get the forwards to generate some momentum and the Welsh backs can be great again. You certainly can't bring in the pretty runners who are failing at club level (Morgan, Hook, Jorden) and expect them to transform the national side.

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Post by PenfroPete Thu 27 Nov 2014, 1:15 pm

IronMike wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:I don't think its fitness I think its a lack of basic skills and a rugby thinking brain.  Reading some of the reports from Englands games as well it seemed they had loads possesion/territory but didn't know what to do with it.

The top guys have been playing since they were kids, why haven't the majority developed a Rugby brain? Why is it that the NZ forwards can slot into the backline and know how to draw the man and pass but our guys can't?

There is a video with Dave Tate, a powerlifting coach who talks about how in American schools, coaches tended to favour the bigger and more mature kids to play for the team and run drills, where as the smaller kids would have to go and practice skills, what happened was, that when those kids who had spent the majority of their time practicing skills grew up and matured, they had a huge advantage over the big kids who did nothing.

Is there too much of an emphasis in Wales on "being physical' and picking the bigger players throughout the age grades?

http://blogs.news.com.au/couriermail/amandalucas/index.php/couriermail/comments/rugbys_weight_for_age_rules/
http://www.aucklandrugby.co.nz/Weights-and-Ages-Chart.aspx
http://www.crfu.co.nz/main/download/4491/metro-weight-grading-chart-2014.pdf
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Post by ScarletSpiderman Thu 27 Nov 2014, 1:23 pm

Seagul this is true enough, although to be fair Jordan and Morgan were not exactly failing at regional level last season, and they both looked like future stars up until the summer too.
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Post by Pyleboy65 Mon 01 Dec 2014, 3:33 pm

The whole system needs to be overhauled at schoolboy level. Moving to weight grade would be a start but also there needs to be more of an emphasis on improving skill levels rather than just winning. Don't get me wrong nobody likes to lose but winning at all costs is even worse.

I recently went to watch Rhondda Schools under 15's beat Cardiff Schools and the Rhondda Coaches should be ashamed of themselves. They have developed a very effective 10 man game which gets them to the Dewar Shield Finals most years but it is at the detriment of the skills of the players. The ball never went past 10 and they were driving line outs from half way. Is this the way we want rugby played ?? Surely the WRU should have more say in Schools rugby!!

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Post by Guest Mon 01 Dec 2014, 7:39 pm

Pyleboy65 wrote:The whole system needs to be overhauled at schoolboy level. Moving to weight grade would be a start but also there needs to be more of an emphasis on improving skill levels rather than just winning. Don't get me wrong nobody likes to lose but winning at all costs is even worse.

I recently went to watch Rhondda Schools under 15's beat Cardiff Schools and the Rhondda Coaches should be ashamed of themselves. They have developed a very effective 10 man game which gets them to the Dewar Shield Finals most years but it is at the detriment of the skills of the players. The ball never went past 10 and they were driving line outs from half way. Is this the way we want rugby played ?? Surely the WRU should have more say in Schools rugby!!

I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with playing that sort of Rugby, BUT teams need to play TOTAL rugby - being able to keep it tight in the forwards when situations require it and being able to play full on running rugby. Think of the way the All Blacks play, they can adapt to conditions and completely change their style.

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Post by Allty Mon 01 Dec 2014, 7:56 pm

of our biggest problems internationally is literally a BIG problem.  

We have forgotten all about skills, passing etc, and now just go for bulk and brute force.



Been saying this for years

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Post by SecretFly Mon 01 Dec 2014, 8:00 pm

Look.  Who do the ABs get to practice against on the training field during their alleged long time together in comparison to other international sides?

Who do they toy around with and try to beat and try to outsmart, and try to out-sprint, and try to out-think?

Yep - themselves.  Another AB team.  There might be three AB teams operating in one AB camp.  All pushing each other, testing each other to the highest levels and then forever honing those skills needed to think quickly, act quickly, evade quickly and smartly.

No other side have the ABs to train against week in and week out.

And yes, you need fitness, core strength and buckets of stamina but the real edge is in the onfield skills being tested and tested to the highest levels, even before these guys walk onto a field to play 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th ranked sides in the world.  Whatever they meet in an International stadium is generally not all that much more slick and inventive and hard than the players the ABs left behind in camp.

It's instincts honed by playing each other that gives them their moments when you really haven't got a hope in hell of answering what they've just done in front of you.

I think getting to that level is years and years of genuine squad development defined by 'equal' and high ability not as is the present in many teams where squads are defined by 9 or 10 genuine talents, with a not so hot bunch around them to fill the spaces.

And genuine squads rich in talent comes from an even earlier period - children.   The most important development in trying to get close to where New Zealand are is in serious interest in kid's rugby - the right nurturing to instill skills and instincts earlier.

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Post by FecklessRogue Mon 01 Dec 2014, 9:55 pm

Agree Fly. Why we aren't taking much more interest in how they teach kids rugby in New Zealand I have no idea. It wouldn't make us all All Blacks overnight but it wouldn't hurt. Training better with better players makes you better. It's the basis of the famous soccer academies in France, Spain, Germany, Belgium etc.
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