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Burgess a fatty not a back

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Post by munkian Wed 26 Mar 2014, 8:42 am

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_9232747,00.html

Cross-code signing Sam Burgess will feature in the back-row for Bath next season, rather than being developed as a centre.

Bath head coach Mike Ford has confirmed to Planet Rugby that Burgess - 1.96m and 116kg - will play in the forwards despite having been touted as an option for England at inside centre.

Others reports have stated that the decision to play Burgess in the pack comes down to the RFU not contributing to the sizeable transfer fee paid by Bath to NRL side the South Sydney Rabbitohs, who are owned by Hollywood star Russell Crowe.

Bath owner Bruce Craig has now been forced to pay the entire £500,000 transfer fee, according to the Daily Mail, having previously hoped that the RFU would add in £280,000.

The signing of Burgess, 25, is seen as a major coup for rugby union but time is against him to make England's squad for the Rugby World Cup next year.



So, he'll be re-writing the book on back row play then....
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Post by Bathite Wed 26 Mar 2014, 8:54 am

Bath always aimed to play him in the pack, it was only the RFU and media suggesting 12. It is going to be much more difficult for him to make the transition and he'd be doing what no league player has done before, but let's hope it works out well for him. Seeing him off the back of a scrum or on an inside pop from the scrummy will be brilliant, but i'm not sure how much ruck clearing we will get at first!

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Post by munkian Wed 26 Mar 2014, 8:57 am

Will be interesting for different reasons whichever way it goes  Wink 
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Post by GunsGerms Wed 26 Mar 2014, 9:52 am

Im not surprised at this at all. I said from the start he would need to drop a few pounds if he wanted to be a back in union. Interesting to see how it pans out but it will take a stellar season with Bath to be included in the England world cup squad.

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Post by whocares Wed 26 Mar 2014, 9:52 am

if he has a good fetcher around him, he could maybe fit at number 8. will be intersting to see. what is Bath likely starting XV for next season? they seem to be doing well in the AP so wonderign what sort of threat they will be in the next euro cup.

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Post by Rugby Fan Wed 26 Mar 2014, 10:48 am

Andy Farrell started at flanker before heading out to the backs.

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Post by Bathite Wed 26 Mar 2014, 10:55 am

whocares wrote:if he has a good fetcher around him, he could maybe fit at number 8. will be intersting to see. what is Bath likely starting XV for next season? they seem to be doing well in the AP so wonderign what sort of threat they will be in the next euro cup.

Something like this mate. No big changes to the starting XV, apart from the huge loss of BEndy, which is currently not replaced

James/Catt
Webber/Batty
Wilson/Thomas
Attwood/Caldwell
Day/Hooper
Garvey/Burgess
Louw/Mercer
Houston/Fearns

Stringer/Roberts
Ford/Heathcote
Banahan/Woodburn
Eastmond/Williams
Devoto/Joseph
Agulla/Roko
Watson/?

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Post by beshocked Wed 26 Mar 2014, 10:57 am

Good thing about Bath paying the full amount for Burgess is that Bath will have complete control of Burgess - meaning no unwanted influence from the RFU. Means that RFU won't be able to force Bath to use Burgess in the way they want.

With the Andy Farrell situation - there was too much club vs RFU with differing interests. Funnily enough in that case both parties have done well out of it because of course Andy Farrell brought his son down with him.....

Any possibility that Sam Burgess might persuade his brothers to switch codes? Two of his brothers are only 21 for example.

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Post by munkian Wed 26 Mar 2014, 11:18 am

Rugby Fan wrote:Andy Farrell started at flanker before heading out to the backs.

And he was awful wasn't he ?
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Post by lostinwales Wed 26 Mar 2014, 11:43 am

munkian wrote:
Rugby Fan wrote:Andy Farrell started at flanker before heading out to the backs.

And he was awful wasn't he ?

What was almost bizarre for a guy of his size was that his best position probably was 10. Would have been a lot more interesting if he had switched a couple of years earlier and dodged the toe injury and car crash. But we will never know

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Post by Bathite Wed 26 Mar 2014, 12:02 pm

Farrell just reminds me of a dark time, an awful game of rugby, when I went to the USA vs England game in France in the 2007 RWC. It was terrible.

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Post by The Saint Wed 26 Mar 2014, 12:23 pm

He'd probably be a decent 6, but can he master the dark arts of the breakdown?

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Post by Geordie Wed 26 Mar 2014, 12:24 pm

Is that Bath squad under the salary cap??

Hope they win title soon as thats some outlay they've spent in the last few seasons.

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Post by propdavid_london Wed 26 Mar 2014, 3:32 pm

Wouldnt Burgess make a better No.8 than either a 6 or 7?
I suspect seeing him doing a pick and go off the back of a scrum with 5m or so to go could be pretty effective.
My head is normally stuck in the front row, so forgive me if I'm wrong but I kind of see no.8 as a slightly less technical position in the back row - a player whos main responsibility is control at the back of the scrum and being a bit of a monster of a ball carrier.
That sounds more suitable - and if Andy Powell was recognised enough to get a Lions cap then this Burgess chap should be able to get to grips with it.

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Post by DeludedOptimistorjustDave Wed 26 Mar 2014, 9:58 pm

Don't think he will last five minutes , he has skills but to ruck maul and attempt turnovers, then see how he copes not only being tackled but players ripping the ball or attempting a turn over, then the line out.
More I think about it they are insane to stick him in a pack he would have slotted in at centre no problem.
But at least he is playing in a soft league where player go to retire and collect a pension.
Imagine him having to play in the rabo against the likes of SOB,Tupric,Falatue,Heaslip,Warburton,Ferris to name a few! He would be running back to league with in month,
But he has the likes of nick Easter and robshaw to play against so he should cope.

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Post by Bathite Wed 26 Mar 2014, 10:51 pm

Nice try

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Post by Rugby Fan Thu 27 Mar 2014, 12:23 am

munkian wrote:
Rugby Fan wrote:Andy Farrell started at flanker before heading out to the backs.

And he was awful wasn't he ?

I'm sure finding one position and sticking with it is the best way. Farrell did say, however, that playing at flanker got him up to speed more quickly on the breakdown.

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Post by munkian Thu 27 Mar 2014, 8:28 am

Could be Bergamasco-esque  Shocked 
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Post by Geordie Thu 27 Mar 2014, 8:42 am

DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:Don't think he will last five minutes , he has skills but to ruck maul and attempt turnovers, then see how he copes not only being tackled but players ripping the ball or attempting a turn over, then the line out.
More I think about it they are insane to stick him in a pack he would have slotted in at centre no problem.
But at least he is playing in a soft league where player go to retire and collect a pension.
Imagine him having to play in the rabo against the likes of SOB,Tupric,Falatue,Heaslip,Warburton,Ferris to name a few! He would be running back to league with in month,
But he has the likes of nick Easter and robshaw to play against so he should cope.

Do they ever play in the league...i thought they were constantly rested for the HC...

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Post by munkian Thu 27 Mar 2014, 8:48 am

Not..sure..if..WUM ?
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Post by yappysnap Thu 27 Mar 2014, 11:35 am

As long as the other players can cover the technical skills for him he can be a pretty effective ball carrier and i'm sure he'll be happy to tackle hard all day. It's just a case of making up for his weaknesses and playing to his strengths, let him just carry and hit people and get some of the others to do the other work until he's got it figured out.

No different to having a specialist 7 who doesn't do much else except turn ball over at opportune times eg Hooper

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Post by BamBam Thu 27 Mar 2014, 11:46 am

Does this mean Garvey will be moved back to lock, or will they be competing for 6? A lot of money invested in 1 position if both are playing blindside

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Post by yappysnap Thu 27 Mar 2014, 11:55 am

Louw, Fearns, Garvey, Burgess and then a few academy boys. That's some impressive use of the salary cap...

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Post by Bathite Thu 27 Mar 2014, 12:05 pm

Although he should be, Garvey isn't an international and isn't expensive, neither is Fearns. Louw not in the cap, Koster leaves the cap this year, as does Bendy, with a sizeable transfer fee to recoup as well.

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Post by Bathite Thu 27 Mar 2014, 12:08 pm

BamBam wrote:Does this mean Garvey will be moved back to lock, or will they be competing for 6? A lot of money invested in 1 position if both are playing blindside

A lot of money to spend on Burgess, but it would be silly to place Burgess as #1 pick in a position starting in October, wouldn't it! Definitely possibility to push Garvey to lock though, with Caldwell possibly leaving us with Attwood (England duty a lot), Day and Hooper in the row stable

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Post by sirtidychris Fri 28 Mar 2014, 12:41 pm

I disagree with some stuff on here, firstly we are forgetting the most decorated league convert in history brad thorn, who is the same height and weight as burgess, who first converted to union around the same age as slammin sam. Burgess is a good all rounder but he is most known for his aggression, leadership and physicality, he likes sticking his head in dark places which is why he plays prop in league. His hands are good and he makes yards but he isn't in the same mould as Robinson, Folau, SBW, he's a big athletic in your face northerner who has decent hands and good top end pace (not a world class step like robbo/izzy, not world class hands like SBW, and not awesome acceleration like robbo).

At six england have Wood, Croft, Johnson, Haskell. Wood is awesome but has a permanent toe condition which almost ended his career last year which he manages by missing training sessions for evermore, if this flairs up again there are big question marks, croft is another season ending injury away from international retirement and johnson/haskell are unlikely to be contenders after 2015.Burgess may take two seasons to get there but with his character and attributes I see him at 6 for england.  

P.s Bathite that Usa game was the best game i've ever seen our old golden boy Barkley play for engalnd, he was immense in white at flyhalf. Rumour has it caldwell is off to ireland so for me Garvey Attwood would be monstrous together with slammin sam at 6.

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