Calum Clark to return to the EPS?

So with tom Croft being ruled out for the season, who will Stuart Lancaster call up to the EPS?

the most experienced back rower in the Saxons is James Haskell, but I believe his injury will not clear up until late November?

So other contenders include: George Kruis, Calum Clark, Luke Wallace, Tom Johnson and Will Fraser (also injured). We can probably discount the two tigers No8s in the Saxons squad.

So who will get added?

Don't you mean UFC ?

munkian wrote:Don't you mean UFC ?

Well as he is a bit of a pantomime villain, probably more WWE

Over Clarke, I would take:

Haskell, even injured
Fraser, even injured
Tom Johnson
Luke Wallace
Waldrum
Crane
Kruis at 6
Garvey
Fearns
Move Launchbury to 6 and call up Slater/Kitchener
Move Barritt to 6 and call up Allen or Daly

ChequeredJersey wrote:Over Clarke, I would take:

Waldrum

Blimey.


Liked your last selection though.

LondonTiger wrote:

munkian wrote:Don't you mean UFC ?

Well as he is a bit of a pantomime villain, probably more WWE

Hyper extending someone's arm is 'pantomime ' ?  

Who've you scene play Alladin ?  

Charles Bronson at the Wakefield Prison jamboree was Widow Twanky

I heard that if he does return to the EPS that RFU plan to issue Clark with a special shirt to ensure other players safety... https://twitter.com/GLove39/status/289113668183023616/photo/1

Forgive and forget and move on. Nobodys perfect.

GunsGerms wrote:Forgive and forget and move on.

My other choices weren't just based on Clarke's past actions, they are based on that the fact that I think all the above would improve our team over Clarke too

I'd take Clarke, The lads had a problem served his time and Lancaster is one of the best man managers in the game and should help him mature.

If he is as good as some experts say, then great I have no problem with him playing. As he only featured from the bench last week, it is hard to say whether form is good.

Maybe it might be a good idea if Clarke did not rejoin the EPS straight away.

It might be better for him if he had this season back at his club and give some one else a chance. Some one who as not been banned.

Give him a chance too prove himself at club level.

What club is the EPS? Ive seen it referred to in previous threads but never understood what the letters stood for.

Elite Player Squad, a group of players who can train for England in certain windows

Cheers CJ, you learn a new thing every day.

So its what we refer to down here as the "Wider training squad".

Just as overrated as Lawes IMO. I'd probably look at Armitage, Haskell or Johnson first.

No doubt Lancs will wait until just before the AIs and assess the options then. At the moment it doesn't look like Clarke will even be getting much game time for Saints.

Garvey made around 22 tackles in the first game against Falcons and missed one I think. He's a big unit and for my money more of a SR but he'd be good to have training in the EPS. Alternatively with Hask out for a while i'd like to see Fearns get some game time again as he looked really good before being injured at the end of last season.

More than likely I think we'll see Tom Johnson come in as he's getting regular time for Chiefs.

I don't think Croft would have made the team if fit anyway. Likely to have been 6. T Wood 7. C Robshaw 8. B Morgan 20. T Croft - Now i'd like to see 6. T Wood 7. M Kvesic 8. B Morgan 20. B Vunipola - Kvesic or Robshaw whoever seems to be playing better. Both can cover 6/7/8 in theory and Billy V's impact of the bench would be good to see.

I'd like them to look at Fearns if he's fit at the time. He played well on the tour of SA and has been in and around the Saxons before. Plus he's a big unit who can cover multiple positions from the bench.

If not Fearns then another big 6 is really needed as we already have two 7's in the squad. Left field but Tom Savage?

I take it Tom Wood is fit right? And I haven't missed any injuries to him?!

Chjw131 wrote:Now i'd like to see 6. T Wood 7. M Kvesic 8. B Morgan 20. B Vunipola - Kvesic or Robshaw whoever seems to be playing better. Both can cover 6/7/8 in theory and Billy V's impact of the bench would be good to see.

Blimey one game into the new season and Kvesic "The Messiah" has already supplanted Robshaw? He must have been out standing against Bath right?

yappysnap wrote:

Chjw131 wrote:Now i'd like to see 6. T Wood 7. M Kvesic 8. B Morgan 20. B Vunipola - Kvesic or Robshaw whoever seems to be playing better. Both can cover 6/7/8 in theory and Billy V's impact of the bench would be good to see.

Blimey one game into the new season and Kvesic "The Messiah" has already supplanted Robshaw? He must have been out standing against Bath right?

To be fair that campaign started earlier, during the summer.

Robshaw wore 7 at the weekend, and Wallace 6 - but whilst Wallace was on the pitch who was on the openside?

Leaving aside who gets promoted to the senior EPS for a second, I would like to see Sam Jones of Wasps take their place in the Saxons. I think he is a superb player and will go on to very good things.

Savage is one I would like to see them look at too Yappy. I was quite surprised that he didn't make the Saxons this year. I would have had him in there ahead of Kearnan Myall. Is he in Bomber's bad books like Matt Garvey?

Fearns seems like a bit of a sick note to me, I wonder if he will ever really fulfil his potential because of it. It's a shame really because we could really do with more competition at no.8 ( Morgan seems to break easily and Billy V is still a kid and the back up isn't really inspiring). How about Dave Ewers (assuming he's accept the call up!) as a left-field selection?

yappysnap wrote:

Chjw131 wrote:Now i'd like to see 6. T Wood 7. M Kvesic 8. B Morgan 20. B Vunipola - Kvesic or Robshaw whoever seems to be playing better. Both can cover 6/7/8 in theory and Billy V's impact of the bench would be good to see.

Blimey one game into the new season and Kvesic "The Messiah" has already supplanted Robshaw? He must have been out standing against Bath right?

He played against Sale, yappy. But no, no he was not

LondonTiger wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

Chjw131 wrote:Now i'd like to see 6. T Wood 7. M Kvesic 8. B Morgan 20. B Vunipola - Kvesic or Robshaw whoever seems to be playing better. Both can cover 6/7/8 in theory and Billy V's impact of the bench would be good to see.

Blimey one game into the new season and Kvesic "The Messiah" has already supplanted Robshaw? He must have been out standing against Bath right?

To be fair that campaign started earlier, during the summer.

Robshaw wore 7 at the weekend, and Wallace 6 - but whilst Wallace was on the pitch who was on the openside?

Wallace was physically the open side as far as I could tell off the scrums but they shared the scavenging duties, as did Wasps' backrow

Well I'll say it again...we weren't great opposition...but Garvey was immense on Friday. His tackling, carrying..and general workrate with Attwood was massive.
Add in his bulk I'd put him in....but we know lancs won't swallow his pride.

I wouldn't mind having Slater in the squad if he's fit, Fraser would also have been there or about if not injured.

I do have a feeling that with Croft now also out for the season we would likely see Tom Johnston step back in. I'm not a massive fan though. I would prefer to have Wallace called up as he's shown glimpses of the x-factor.

Could we also put out an emergency SOS for Steffan Armitage!

Surely it will be Wallace or Kruis to step up rather than Johnston now? I can see Robshaw stepping across to cover 6 if Wood was injured though and Kvesic coming into 7.

Is Kruis a 2nd row that covers back row or the other way around!

There are only 1 guy I've really seen that have done a reasonable job of covering both back and 2nd row - that's Mafi at Tigers.
And I'd never really want that to happen at international level!

He is more a second row to be fair but I'm just not convinced that Johnston has the size for an international 6. Perhaps I'm being unfair to him.

No, I agree - Johnston tries hard and really gets stuck in. Might be because he wore the red scrum cap, but I always thought that he fell off and missed a lot of tackles and was knocked back in the physical battle.
I would prefer him not to be the replacement, not being ageist (as Haskell would be 1st choice if fit) but I would rather one of the youngsters to be called up - Wallace, Fraser, Kruis (but as a 2nd row), Saull if he can get some form at Falcons. Guest, but his time may have been and gone.

Lets not forget that Billy Vaunipola played well as a 6 for wasps in LDH.

Krikey - imagine a pack of -
Corbis-Webber-Cole
Launchbury-Attwood
Vaunipola-Robshaw-Morgan

With guys like -
Vaunipola-Youngs-Wilson-Lawes/Parling-Wood-Kvesik

to come on.

propdavid_london wrote:Is Kruis a 2nd row that covers back row or the other way around!

There are only 1 guy I've really seen that have done a reasonable job of covering both back and 2nd row - that's Mafi at Tigers.  
And I'd never really want that to happen at international level!

Kruis has looked good in both positions for Sarries, so has Launchbury. Internationally, Alberts does a pretty decent job of it

Fair point CJ - and you are quite right - I had forgotten Alberts.

I just remember Webber and Lawes having a stint in the back row for England and it not working particularly well.

I would just rather players to be picked in their specialist positions (where possible).

Different times but Tim Rodber was surprisingly effective in both roles. You could say the same for Ryan Jones but I guess both were flankers who went to 2nd row rather than the other way around

kruis looks a real prospect but probably more of a second row who covers 6. I think it was the Munster game when he played at 6 he put in a MOM performance...Beshocked can confirm that one.
Tim Rodber was a back rower first...who moved forward...but also he was a class player aswell..and tough as nails.

Not sure Johnson should be there now. Hes got the heart and work rate and he works so well in that Exeter team...just not sure he's best fit for the England 6 spot.

If he starts the season on fire id possibly give Haskell another go. Refreshed with a good pre season he has the power and drive for a 6...

With baths riches in the pack...be interesting to see where Garvey plays most...6 or 4/5 and how will Fearns look.

The other alternative of course is that this season Clark simply plays class and lives up to the potential that all other coaches seem to have seen.

To be honest if the worst was to happen to Wood during the AI's and we don't have Hask or Croft to replace him, then surely move Robshaw to 6 and bring in Kvesic? As a stop gap that's better then dropping in a guy who'd only just have joined the EPS.

If we're talking 6N's time then it has to be Haskell who replaces Wood. Don't forget in his last 6N starts he was one of our best players by a long way.

Well Yappy that option also gives us the chance to look at the new options at 7..be it Kvesic, Wallace or Fraser whos playing well enough to get called up.

Chjw131 wrote:
“
Now i'd like to see 6. T Wood 7. M Kvesic 8. B Morgan 20. B Vunipola - Kvesic or Robshaw whoever seems to be playing better. Both can cover 6/7/8 in theory and Billy V's impact of the bench would be good to see.
”
Blimey one game into the new season and Kvesic "The Messiah" has already supplanted Robshaw? He must have been out standing against Bath right?

Blimey, one comment about an alternative to Robshaw and the disciples throw their toys from the pram. Even in the quote you have used Yappy my words are 'Kvesic or Robsgaw whoever is playing better'. If you're going to get your knickers in a twist at least delete the parts of the quote which don't suit your argument like some other posters do!

Whilst I'm not a big fan of Clark I'm also not adverse to him being given a second chance if he proves himself in the lead up to the AI's which is when the replacement will presumably be chosen. At the moment though I'd hold the below options preferable depending on form, fitness, etc:

- If fit Haskell deserves to come in as Crofts replacement IMO. He still offers plenty of physicality as always but the rest of his game has matured and if he can pick his carrying up again could actually be brilliant off the bench due to his versatility.

- As many have said if Wood were to get injured and Haskell hasn't recovered my next option would be Robshaw at 6 so we can have a look at the many young options lining up at 7, whether that be Kvesic, Fraser or Wallace they all look very promising.

If talking about direct replacements in the EPS I'd hold Haskell, Johnson, Fearns and Fraser above him as well.

If Wood gets injured we're in a little bit of trouble going into the AI's. Croft out for the season, Haskell unlikely to play until October, Will Fraser injured since May. Plus lads like Luke Wallace, Matt Kvesic and Calum Clarke have either never played international rugby or are very inexperienced. This not exactly a situation you want to take an angry All Black squad in.

Cumbrian - Whilst Wood getting injured would be a big blow with the options of 6.Haskell 7.Robshaw or 6.Robshaw 7.Kvesic etc I'd say I'm less worried about the back row than the selection in the backs.

If we continue to pick an uninventive mid field, full backs on the wing and continue with a general lack of pace in the backs I fear we will progress little this season. On the bright side we do have the players to select in these positions if used!