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Is the SHBH really dead...?

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Post by lydian Sat 25 Aug 2012, 12:00 pm

Some people, including socal, have said for a while that the SHBH is tennis's equivalent of the Dodo....tasty but not many of them around.

Certainly there are less than say in the 70s/80s but let's look at the current rankings of top 100 further for those with a SHBH. They are:

1) Roger Federer
12) Nicolas Almagro
13) Richard Gasquet
17) Philipp Kohlschreiber
21) Feliciano Lopez
23) Tommy Haas
26) Stanislas Wawrinka
28 ) Mikhail Youzhny
45) Carlos Berlocq
52) Grigor Dimitrov
61) Nicolas Mahut
65) Ivo Karlovic
67) Leonardo Mayer
70) Guillermo Garcia-Lopez
73) Igor Sijsling
81) Bjorn Phau
82) Adrian Ungur
84) Simone Bolelli
85) Flavio Cipolla
86) Michael Llodra
100) Rajeev Ram

That's 21 players. 21%.
But if we look at the top tier there are 8 in the Top30. 27%
So at the highest level there are more not less SHBHs.
Recently Haas beat probably what is the best DHBH on tour twice in as many weeks...Nalbandian.
And let's not forget who the #1 player right now is.

I don't believe this shot is dead at all, if anything it feels as if there are more players with it now that before too.
I also think more players will start to useq it at junior level, partic. if conditions speed up which surely they must at some point for the future security of the game. SHBH allows players to be more aggressive and transition to net play/fore court quicker. It also allows for more variety on returns and yields greater angles. It's also a more powerful shot believe it or not. Ok, it may not be as stable on return but that's e only disadvantage I can see vs the DHBH. I still think if Kuerten could win 3 FOs with it then it can survive this era and increase in numbers.

Maybe LF could do a stats run on how many of Top30 had SHBHs for each year end in Open Era... Shocked

Any thoughts on SHBH prevalence? Whilst SHBH is up at around 20-25% in Top100 I think its future is secure in the game and if anything it's easier for juniors to learn with lighter racquets than the lead pipes they had to learn the shot with 25 years ago!
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Post by User 774433 Sat 25 Aug 2012, 12:25 pm

Interesting list you have there Lydian, there are more SHBH players than I thought.
If I had to rate who I thought had the best SHBH in the game it would probably go like:

Richard Gasquet
Nicolas Almagro
Stanislas Wawrinka
Roger Federer
Tommy Haas
Grigor Dimitrov
Philipp Kohlschreiber
Feliciano Lopez
Mikhail Youzhny
Michael Llodra
Carlos Berlocq
Nicolas Mahut
Guillermo Garcia-Lopez
Leonardo Mayer
Bjorn Phau
Adrian Ungur
Rajeev Ram
Simone Bolelli
Flavio Cipolla
Igor Sijsling
Ivo Karlovic

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Post by carrieg4 Sat 25 Aug 2012, 12:28 pm

Gasquets SHBH is a thing of beauty. He could have had a fantastic career if he could only sort his head out.

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Post by bogbrush Sat 25 Aug 2012, 12:32 pm

I think there are two sides to this; is it dying, and should it be dying?

Taking a quick glance at your list, I'm a bit on concerned about the age profile; there's quite a few veterans there and not too many young players (but then this is the top 100 and there aren't many in there anyway!). Maybe on that basis it is dying out.

However what you say about the power and flexibility of the shot is correct and suggests there's no good reason for it to die.

So how do we explain the trend against reason? Boring, production line coaching? Impatience (the SHBH is a tougher shot to learn for young, weaker players, it takes longer to be able to get the thing into a usable shot that a DHBH)?

I certainly hope your optimism is well founded. It remains in my book the most elegant and pleasing shot in the game.


Last edited by bogbrush on Sat 25 Aug 2012, 1:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by sirfredperry Sat 25 Aug 2012, 12:35 pm

Reckon the reason why so many, particularly women, players use the DHBH is that they started playing so young that they were constantly getting balls up around their heads or above and found it easier to do a double-fisted shot.
Watch a lot of the women and they cannot volley unless they drive volley - a shot fraught with danger and risk.
Also, with players starting to play when tiny, they were very reluctant to go to the net as it was too easy to hit the ball over their head - a reluctance that sadly extended into adulthood.

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Post by The Special Juan Sat 25 Aug 2012, 12:42 pm

I like the shot; it's aesthetically pleasing when it's working well. I see no reason for it to die out but in my view the choice between a DHBH and a SHBH is sort of like being left handed or right handed: it's a natural thing and very hard to play the unfavoured BH over the favoured one. When I played tennis I used the DHBH because; a) It was easier and b) I was taught/told to use it. It's much easier to have a better working DHBH than a SHBH.

However, you do get players like Tsonga who use the SHBH on occasion. Of course, the more people who use a DHBH, the more the kids will try and copy that player and the less the SHBH will be used. I think, in 10/15 years, there will be very few in use.
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Post by laverfan Sat 25 Aug 2012, 4:10 pm

IMVHO, SHBH will be around for a long time. I agree with SFP on why the DHBH for early learners plays such a part.

I have seen players can hit both SH and DH easily, especially you get to the Top 100. It is a conscious choice to pick one over the other.

Lydian... I will do a Top 100 from 1973. Please give me a couple of days/ a week. Wink

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Post by lydian Sat 25 Aug 2012, 7:10 pm

Yep some of the list are getting older because I think from 90s they started coaching DHBH much more...Guys like Bolletieri really embraced this type of shot. So the kids who were 8-12 in early 90s are now mid-20s onwards. The interesting point is that probably 90%+ of those 90s kids got taught DHBHs and yet they 'only' account for <75% of BHs in the current top30. Therefore the SHBH is punching above its weight - yes even now. It says that a player with a SHBH tends to do relatively better at elite level than one with DHBH.

So I firmly believe there will be more kids coming through with SHBH once coaches see that SHBH gives more variety and rewards sticking with it. However, it'll probably only go above 30%+ prevalence once the game moves away from its current preponderance of slower conditions which don't reward varied play.

Key issues why kids got taught DHBH are coaching resources, cost of coaching leading to tennis camp drill training rather than the old 1 on 1 style (SHBH does take longer to teach) and the age kids start tennis now in academies, etc. They're starting earlier than due to increased coaching structure, e.g. LTA mini tennis approach w hich is mirrored in other countries. At a young age, i.e. 4-5 yo, they do find a racquet is easiest to hold with a DHBH grip. But they're not discouraged either. Many then stay with this grip into adulthood. However, even if they start with a DHBH it's relatively easy to switch to a SHBH (easier than the other way) like Sampras did. So again if the game rewards the players more then they'll be encouraged to switch. I do see quite a few juniors with SHBHs after age of 9...they can easily hold a racquet in SHBH at that age. And it's great to see as they stick out like sore thumbs compared to the drill-like DHBHers.

But aside from the youth aspects as mentioned there are currently 20-25% of SHBH in top 100 which I believe is higher than say 5 years ago...could be wrong though. This surely shows the shot is no rarity and can still find its place. So if 25% of players can currently compete at top30 level with SHBH in these turgid conditions then it can survive anything.

On Gasquet I feel his BH is slightly overrated. It's a nice shot but he stands far back to play it and uses excessive spin, Almagro's is a BH in my opinion. And if course Federer's for that matter too - after all SHBHs are 100% of the top1 spots!

But at least Gasquet plays it with grace and for me tennis developed as a game of grace and holding a racquet with 2 hands is an anathema. Tennis should be like Olympic fencing in terms of attack and counterattack...all the best swordsman use one hand for speed, guile and agility. So I say en-garde for the SHBH!

And lest we forget about grace, well here it is...epitomised in one of the best ever tennis pics in my opinion:

THE SHBH shot!!!

How can the kids of today not be inspired by a shot like that?
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Post by bogbrush Sat 25 Aug 2012, 7:41 pm

I get kind of misty eyed talking about the SHBH. Like most, I started learning the game by playing, and boy did I end up with a forehand to show the folly of that approach.

I also started with a DHBH but once I got really into the game I decided it was a girls shot so decided to go SH BUT I got a coaching book out and drilled against a wall for God knows how many hours, and got a friend to watch and help. When I later went for coaching, one on one, and he said after a few weeks "ok, let's look at the BH" and I whizzed my topspin BH by him he just smiled and said word to the effect of "ok, not much to do there". A nice moment!
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Post by lydian Sat 25 Aug 2012, 8:53 pm

Yeah I'm the same BB, for me its one of the archetypal tennis shots.
Similarly for me my SHBH is relatively natural. I enhanced it by standing even more sideways on the shot than I used to and switched from a western grip (Gasquet has similar to create excessive spin) to a semi-western, I did similar with FH so I had same grip both sides. I will westernise the BH more on a high bouncing ball. If you look at many of the SHBHers it's their primary attacking shot, e.g. Haas' DTL BH is very very good.

My fave BH is Guga without doubt as it was so distinctive and he had no problem coping with Bruguera's 3500 rpm FH on clay (many say his first use of modern Luxilon poly strings helped but his BH technique was flawless). Federer's for grace of course, as posted above.

The funny thing is that many kids play the 1 handed slice but then go to the double handed topspin...showing that holding a racquet singlehandedly on the BH is natural to them. The DHBH only really took off in the 70s as the power of the game went up.
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Post by bogbrush Sun 26 Aug 2012, 12:48 am

Funny you mention 'natural'.

I saw an interesting exercise from a oaching book that proved to me how natural the SHBH was. Try hitting a wrong- handed forehand. It's almost impossible. Then try hitting a SHBH with the wrong hand. You can, with relatively little effort, get it right.

I can just about hit a reasonable left-handed SHBH if i groove it in or a bit. I doubt I can get the ball meaningfully in court with a left-handed forehand.
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Post by lydian Sun 26 Aug 2012, 8:42 am

Interesting point there BB...I haven't tried that but in mentally airshotting it I can tell its going to be natural as you mention. I have tried to play DHBHs and find that shot quite unnatural. I find it funny when you analyse the 'unnaturalness' of the shot further....Borg played the composite SHBH/DHBH shot more on quicker grass, also others like Goran and Tsonga will play a SHBH topspin when under time pressure showing it is the preferable stroke when conditions are faster. So, if conditions were faster....
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Post by hawkeye Sun 26 Aug 2012, 9:15 am

Speaking from personal experience I have what has been described as a Federer like SHBH (Ha ha! This is a true complement ) but the same tennis coach also warned that I would have trouble playing Nadal (Ha ha! So far he has given me no difficulty...) The truth is I do find any high loopy balls deep in the backhand corner particularly difficult to deal with. I would much prefer to return flat hard hit forehands with my SHBH. In fact it's easier to hit a good return off this sort of shot as it's possible to use the power and the height of the bounce is just perfect. But please keep quiet about this otherwise I will be in trouble...

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Post by lydian Sun 26 Aug 2012, 10:07 am

Here's a great short video of Kuerten vs Federer, note their SHBHs....and if you look at Federer's SHBH I don't believe he plays the shot as well now, played it much better back then coping with Kuerten's high speed very well and also flattening it well DTL. Similarly Kuerten himself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBU8frSOLvg

HE, to hit those high SHBHs you either have to take the ball earlier or stand back further, and/or use a more western grip on those hit shots so you can come over the ball more. Kuerten used a western grip, Fed SW grip
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Post by Born Slippy Mon 27 Aug 2012, 11:03 am

The single handed backhand is dying and has been for some time. Amazing that there are now only 9 single handers in the top 50. Five years ago it was 15 and 5 years before that it was 19/20 (I'm not certain whether Kratochvil used one hands or two). If you go back a further 10 years then 15 of the top 25 were one handed. Effectively the number of one handed backhands is halving every 10 years.

The Federer effect may well mean a few more one handers come through over the next few years but I'd be surprised if it holds back the tide for that long.

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Post by socal1976 Mon 27 Aug 2012, 10:21 pm

laverfan wrote:IMVHO, SHBH will be around for a long time. I agree with SFP on why the DHBH for early learners plays such a part.

I have seen players can hit both SH and DH easily, especially you get to the Top 100. It is a conscious choice to pick one over the other.

Lydian... I will do a Top 100 from 1973. Please give me a couple of days/ a week. Wink

I can hit both and actually like hitting the one hander more. Not just slice I like to use the one hander when moving up in the court on a low ball it surprises my opponent that i can come over it with one hand. It is not that hard of a shot to hit, the problem becomes as the pace, height, and spin notch up you have to repeat that shot over and over and over again in the most difficult position around and above your shoulder. I don't have a one handed backhanded and frankly it is sad but when I mess around with it and hit the one handed topspin backhand it it is better than a lot guys who have one handers at my club. The key of course is to catch the ball in front, another problem with the one hander, while you can drive a two hander that you are slightly behind on it becomes exponentially harder to drive a one hander that you are a little late on. No question the one hander is a fun shot to hit and to watch. But when it comes down to the grind of replecating that shot over and over again on high spinning balls on the pro tour it will be hard to replicate it with the consistency and precision of a two hander. And the height and spin levels on the ball are only going up and up. For this reason I don't think it will dissappear but it will become more and more of an oddity.

The reason it is disappearing more less is not that it is an impossible shot, how could it be, I don't have one hander and I can drive it when I mess around with the shot and hit some damn pretty shots and Tsonga does some of the same stuff. But when you talk about heavy exchanges with elevated spin and pace the dominant motif of the pro game; it simply is not as effective a shot as a good two hander. That is why from the juniors on up your are going to see less and less one handers. The two hander is winning out because not only is it the harder shot it is the more easily replicatable under pressure of the two shots, additionally allowing you to drive a ball you are late on much, much more effectively than a one hander. These advantages of added simplicity, replicability, and power of the two hander is making it the weapon of choice. And in coming years the trend will increase while never completely wiping the one hander off tour. Some giant players like Karlovic should play with a one hander.

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Post by Guest Wed 29 Aug 2012, 4:30 pm

Ah lydian I have been meaning to reply to this thread.

I don't think the shot itself is dead. Regarding the DHBH, for me it has become the most economical shot in tennis. Evolution in strings and racquets have made it a shot that the current and future generations will use. It has become what the SHBH was in the 80's. A shot that kept rallies going and kept players in the game. The SHBH slice was such a shot in the 80's that if a player was struggling on serve or with the FH, there was a bank shot in the slice which meant that it was possible to play yourself into a match to which you may have deemed dead. The thing with the SHBH in the 80's was that it didn't require much in the follow through. It was almost like halfway through the shot post backswing meant that players could generate power with a high degree of accuracy. CCBH's in the 80's were very much rally based shots and didn't really yield much in the way of winners.

The DHBH for me now is like a second FH. My nephew has a DHBH and the pace and speed that he generate with minimal effort is ridiculous. There is more control with it also. Watch Nadal and Murray and you can see that they can take control of rallies from almost impossible positions on the court. The conditions may yes favour the shot, but the SHBH also evolved. Look at Federer and Ljubicic who could hit such flat and deep BH's CC or up the court with great power and produce winners. Something that seldomly not evident in the 80's. Now with slower conditions look at the Almagro and Gasquet BH's who have massive follow throughs but can generate a lot of height and depth and spin. If I was coaching the SHBH I would model them on the Almagro and Gasquet BH and if I was coaching DHBH I would look no further than Murray and Nadal for inspiration. There is room for the SHBH, but it won't be a shot that can yield the same level of winners as a DHBH.

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Post by socal1976 Wed 29 Aug 2012, 5:53 pm

I do agree with LK there, I mean it isn't just down to lazy coaching as why the number of one handers has been coming down as some claim. This is a multimillion dollar cut throat sport if advantage could be gained by using the one hander players would learn it. As Born Slipy has said the number of onehanders has been getting halved every decade and that is for a reason. The principal one being that average height level and spin levels of the rallies has been increasing now for years and years, really for decades now. For a baseline and spin dominated game there is no question that the two hander is for most players the better shot for that kind of a game.

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Post by lydian Wed 29 Aug 2012, 6:43 pm

socal1976 wrote: For a baseline and spin dominated game ...

Proverbial nail knocked on proverbial head.
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Post by hawkeye Wed 29 Aug 2012, 10:05 pm

lydian wrote:

HE, to hit those high SHBHs you either have to take the ball earlier or stand back further, and/or use a more western grip on those hit shots so you can come over the ball more. Kuerten used a western grip, Fed SW grip

Have just seen this advice. Thank you. My problem is I'm not really Federer and taking the ball early for me is quite tricky. It can come off but equally I can get the timing wrong and miss hit in an embarrassing way. Also standing further back involves a lot of running and I'm not really Nadal either. It's surprising how few players want to use this tactic though (high loopy balls to the backhand corner) most want to hit impressive looking hard flat cross court forehands... Phew!

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Post by hawkeye Wed 29 Aug 2012, 10:20 pm

legendkillarV2 wrote: Watch Nadal and Murray and you can see that they can take control of rallies from almost impossible positions on the court.

Disagree! Nadal doesn't use his BACKHAND to take control of points. He may hit spectacular winners occasionally from it in the right situation but most of the time he's just using it to try and get the ball on the forehand. It's only there that he can really take control of the point. Most tactics in the modern game involve trying to hit forehands. No matter how good a backhand is it can't be used in this way. Nadal is by far the best at doing this. Murray may be the worst. A good backhand no matter how good doesn't make up for a good forehand.

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Post by lydian Wed 29 Aug 2012, 10:37 pm

The other option then HE is to develop a good cutting BH slice.

Slicing high balls is relatively easy and it takes a very good player to hit offensively off a well returned slice. It's also a shot with a good margin for safety and can be used to go down the line, or dropped short. Many players have made strong careers off the back of a really strong BH slice, e.g. Feliciano Lopez who at 30 is still top 20...hasn't done him much harm as you rarely see him hit a topspin BH.

Yeah Nadal ralleys with his BH...it's not a natural shot for him given he's right-handed so he's almost playing a double handed FH.
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Post by socal1976 Thu 30 Aug 2012, 12:07 am

hawkeye wrote:
lydian wrote:

HE, to hit those high SHBHs you either have to take the ball earlier or stand back further, and/or use a more western grip on those hit shots so you can come over the ball more. Kuerten used a western grip, Fed SW grip

Have just seen this advice. Thank you. My problem is I'm not really Federer and taking the ball early for me is quite tricky. It can come off but equally I can get the timing wrong and miss hit in an embarrassing way. Also standing further back involves a lot of running and I'm not really Nadal either. It's surprising how few players want to use this tactic though (high loopy balls to the backhand corner) most want to hit impressive looking hard flat cross court forehands... Phew!

I do exactly that tactic every time I play a one hander. In fact, I stand in my backhand corner and spend the early part of the match hitting heavy spin shots to the one handers backhand. I leave his down the line backhand open and dare him to hit there. If people call it moonballing so be it, every single time I see a one handed backhand I make him prove to me that he can hit the heavy spinning shot up at his shoulder over and over again. Also this sets up a great combination that is oh so safe for you. Pepper inside out heavy spin backhand till you get the short ball and then flatten it out cross court. A very simple, safe, and deadly combo that opens up if you pepper that one hander high and heavy. The fact that everytime I see a one hander my first instinct is to make him hit a lot of high balls should tell you about the efficacy of most one handed backhands that i face. To be fair there are a few guys who do come over it well, but I still wouldn't trade those guys one handers for my own two handed backhand.

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Post by socal1976 Thu 30 Aug 2012, 12:11 am

Hawkeye don't be so lazy Lydian's tips on the high ball for the one hander are dead on. When he says step back and roll it back high and heavy yourself he is only talking about a couple of feet or at most a few feet. Go more western and hit out and up giving him another high ball back. And I also find it important to mix it up and flatten out that high backhand whenever the other guy goes loopy and short, even better is to sell out with your footwork and turn the shorter high balls into forehands. But again you have to do more running. In short, with due respect there aren't many tennis tips that don't involve you moving your feet. Frankly, don't want to hear this fear of running stuff from you woman, move those feet and turn that backhand into forehand.

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Post by Guest Thu 30 Aug 2012, 11:24 am

hawkeye wrote:
legendkillarV2 wrote: Watch Nadal and Murray and you can see that they can take control of rallies from almost impossible positions on the court.

Disagree! Nadal doesn't use his BACKHAND to take control of points. He may hit spectacular winners occasionally from it in the right situation but most of the time he's just using it to try and get the ball on the forehand. It's only there that he can really take control of the point. Most tactics in the modern game involve trying to hit forehands. No matter how good a backhand is it can't be used in this way. Nadal is by far the best at doing this. Murray may be the worst. A good backhand no matter how good doesn't make up for a good forehand.

Ermmmm no.

Nadal uses the FH to finish points, not take control.

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Post by hawkeye Thu 30 Aug 2012, 2:59 pm

legendkillarV2 wrote:
hawkeye wrote:
legendkillarV2 wrote: Watch Nadal and Murray and you can see that they can take control of rallies from almost impossible positions on the court.

Disagree! Nadal doesn't use his BACKHAND to take control of points. He may hit spectacular winners occasionally from it in the right situation but most of the time he's just using it to try and get the ball on the forehand. It's only there that he can really take control of the point. Most tactics in the modern game involve trying to hit forehands. No matter how good a backhand is it can't be used in this way. Nadal is by far the best at doing this. Murray may be the worst. A good backhand no matter how good doesn't make up for a good forehand.

Ermmmm no.

Nadal uses the FH to finish points, not take control.

Oh yes he does! (take control with the forehand). Once he has got the ball on his forehand it's strong enough to take control without having to gamble with low risk winners. His intention is to gradually build the point until his opponent has relinquished control and only then will he go for a winner. Often the winning shot involves little risk as he just has to hit the ball into an open court. Sometimes the commentators even suggest that when a rally goes beyond so many shots with Nadal in control with his forehand that they should just admit they have lost control themselves and surrender by hitting the ball in the net to conserve energy.

Of course most players try and use their forehand in this way. It's more noticeable with Nadal because he is the best. Maybe you have been watching Murray too much as he is the only player I can think of who doesn't do this.

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Post by hawkeye Thu 30 Aug 2012, 3:14 pm

Ha ha! Maybe it is not just Nadal who I would have difficulty playing.

I do think a SHBH has many advantages that's why I would never change it even if I could. I was just pointing out what for me is a disadvantage. There are of course ways of dealing with loopy deep shots into the backhand corner.


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Post by slashermcguirk Thu 30 Aug 2012, 4:31 pm

Wawrinka backhand would be my favourite when in full flow

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Post by socal1976 Thu 30 Aug 2012, 5:55 pm

Yeah Slasher he hits it both heavy and with a lot of pace. But the best for me ever is still Richie Gs, also love Haas and Youzhny's one-handers those are great shots as well.

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Post by bogbrush Thu 30 Aug 2012, 6:16 pm

In the end a SHBH has more advantages to it, but it's harder to play; it basically requires greater coordination and, put simply, talent.

No wonder it's played less during a period where rallies can be extended indefinitely.
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Post by Guest Thu 30 Aug 2012, 8:57 pm

hawkeye wrote:
legendkillarV2 wrote:
hawkeye wrote:
legendkillarV2 wrote: Watch Nadal and Murray and you can see that they can take control of rallies from almost impossible positions on the court.

Disagree! Nadal doesn't use his BACKHAND to take control of points. He may hit spectacular winners occasionally from it in the right situation but most of the time he's just using it to try and get the ball on the forehand. It's only there that he can really take control of the point. Most tactics in the modern game involve trying to hit forehands. No matter how good a backhand is it can't be used in this way. Nadal is by far the best at doing this. Murray may be the worst. A good backhand no matter how good doesn't make up for a good forehand.

Ermmmm no.

Nadal uses the FH to finish points, not take control.

Oh yes he does! (take control with the forehand). Once he has got the ball on his forehand it's strong enough to take control without having to gamble with low risk winners. His intention is to gradually build the point until his opponent has relinquished control and only then will he go for a winner. Often the winning shot involves little risk as he just has to hit the ball into an open court. Sometimes the commentators even suggest that when a rally goes beyond so many shots with Nadal in control with his forehand that they should just admit they have lost control themselves and surrender by hitting the ball in the net to conserve energy.

Of course most players try and use their forehand in this way. It's more noticeable with Nadal because he is the best. Maybe you have been watching Murray too much as he is the only player I can think of who doesn't do this.

Those few words undermine your point entirely.

Nadal uses the BH to control the point from the offset. This is my point. Rarely do you see Nadal club 4-5 FH's together.

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Post by hawkeye Thu 30 Aug 2012, 9:49 pm

legendkillarV2 wrote:
hawkeye wrote:
legendkillarV2 wrote:
hawkeye wrote:
legendkillarV2 wrote: Watch Nadal and Murray and you can see that they can take control of rallies from almost impossible positions on the court.

Disagree! Nadal doesn't use his BACKHAND to take control of points. He may hit spectacular winners occasionally from it in the right situation but most of the time he's just using it to try and get the ball on the forehand. It's only there that he can really take control of the point. Most tactics in the modern game involve trying to hit forehands. No matter how good a backhand is it can't be used in this way. Nadal is by far the best at doing this. Murray may be the worst. A good backhand no matter how good doesn't make up for a good forehand.

Ermmmm no.

Nadal uses the FH to finish points, not take control.

Oh yes he does! (take control with the forehand). Once he has got the ball on his forehand it's strong enough to take control without having to gamble with low risk winners. His intention is to gradually build the point until his opponent has relinquished control and only then will he go for a winner. Often the winning shot involves little risk as he just has to hit the ball into an open court. Sometimes the commentators even suggest that when a rally goes beyond so many shots with Nadal in control with his forehand that they should just admit they have lost control themselves and surrender by hitting the ball in the net to conserve energy.

Of course most players try and use their forehand in this way. It's more noticeable with Nadal because he is the best. Maybe you have been watching Murray too much as he is the only player I can think of who doesn't do this.

Those few words undermine your point entirely.

Nadal uses the BH to control the point from the offset. This is my point. Rarely do you see Nadal club 4-5 FH's together.

What? As JM would say "Are you serious?!" Whole 26 shot points go by when Nadal hits nothing but forehands...

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