The Ultimate End - Final Discussion

Federer v Murray

Federer, age 30, #3
Murray, age 25, #4

H2H 7-8
Last meeting: Dubai 2012, Federer won 7-5, 6-4
Have never met on grass.

I find that last stat most telling... Murray, like Djokovic, is going to taste Federer on grass. And it is a whole new level. I do not believe Murray has the bottle or the variety or the attacking mindset to win. The huge expectations on his shoulder and against Federer will likely prove too much. I think he has been exceedingly lucky his last 2 matches to pull through, but he is going to need his A game and hope Federer comes with his C game. Both will be up for this match like never before. Murray aiming for the grandest of slams, and his first slam. Federer, aiming to break records and make history. Federer showed against Djokovic why he is the greatest player of all time on grass; at almost 31 years old he is still competing and setting a benchmark. Murray's defensive game is likely to come up short against Federer. Federer to win this in 4 sets.

I for once actually agree with your summary.

Murray as much as I want him to win needs to up his game by about another 200% to actually compete.

Federer, even though some are still reserved must have confidence of another Slam. Murray's footwork was awful.

Federer plays like today, then only one winner in my eyes.

Andy needs to hope for the Federer of the US Open 2009 Final

I haven't been wrong much this tournament.

Well looking at it, Federer is looking like Slam winning form.

Apparently if Roger wins, Oxfam get £1 million. Have you heard that story?

I've a feeling that Andy will be quite relaxed. After all he's done what's expected of him - by taking Nadal's place

I also think that he's more likely to get back the Fed serve than any other player

But I do give the edge to Fed

legendkillarV2 wrote: Murray's footwork was awful

A bit harsh. For two sets he bossed it to a degree, that 6-1, 6-0 would have been a fairer reflection. As we've seen from others, it can be very hard to cope with Tsonga when he gets going - simply because it must play havoc with your mind, then you leaden footed

Fed's going to come out firing and even if he wins the first set - that won't for me means he wins. If Murray does, then I think he will

But I favour Fed

Great to see both of them - note that they've now contested the two fastest events of this year

Roger Federer will be the warm/hot favourite of that there is no doubt. A lot depends on Andy's approach and how he tackles the match. He must be aggressive and maintain his belief and then who knows? There will be no free points from Fed on Sunday and for the second slam final in a row it will be a historic result whoever wins with history certain to be made.

owen10ozzy wrote:Seifer...

I agree to a point...but you ruin it with your...was lucky in last 2 games. Complete nonsense...tennis isnt like football where 1 decision can change the entire game. Yes it can have an impact but the game is muchlonger and their are more turning points.

Murray was not lucky..he played well enough to get to the final and deserves to be their. I really wish sometimes people would give this chap some slack. He is now into his 4 major grand slam...something us British should be proud of, regardless of whether he wins one or not. He is giving us something to shout about.

I actually think that Murray will be glad to face Federer in the final over Djokovic..reason I say that is because I actually think it provides less pressure.

Whilst Fed hasnt been to a Wimbledon final since 2009...he is the king of grass...well maybe behind Sampras. But the fact Fed is going for 7 proves he is both better and more likely to win than Murray. For that reason Murray should and in his mind will start as underdog and by some margin.

The thing I like about Murray is that he has started very aggresive in alot of his matches. Even when he lost the first set to Ferrer he played some pretty aggressive shot's.

No one can say he has been as passive as he normally is.

I'll end by saying Kudos and Congratulations on him for getting to final and best of luck. Win or Lose im certainly proud of Murray as a Brit!

+1

carrieg4 wrote:

owen10ozzy wrote:Seifer...

I agree to a point...but you ruin it with your...was lucky in last 2 games. Complete nonsense...tennis isnt like football where 1 decision can change the entire game. Yes it can have an impact but the game is muchlonger and their are more turning points.

Murray was not lucky..he played well enough to get to the final and deserves to be their. I really wish sometimes people would give this chap some slack. He is now into his 4 major grand slam...something us British should be proud of, regardless of whether he wins one or not. He is giving us something to shout about.

I actually think that Murray will be glad to face Federer in the final over Djokovic..reason I say that is because I actually think it provides less pressure.

Whilst Fed hasnt been to a Wimbledon final since 2009...he is the king of grass...well maybe behind Sampras. But the fact Fed is going for 7 proves he is both better and more likely to win than Murray. For that reason Murray should and in his mind will start as underdog and by some margin.

The thing I like about Murray is that he has started very aggresive in alot of his matches. Even when he lost the first set to Ferrer he played some pretty aggressive shot's.

No one can say he has been as passive as he normally is.

I'll end by saying Kudos and Congratulations on him for getting to final and best of luck. Win or Lose im certainly proud of Murray as a Brit!

+1

+2

banbrotam wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote: Murray's footwork was awful

A bit harsh. For two sets he bossed it to a degree, that 6-1, 6-0 would have been a fairer reflection. As we've seen from others, it can be very hard to cope with Tsonga when he gets going - simply because it must play havoc with your mind, then you leaden footed

Fed's going to come out firing and even if he wins the first set - that won't for me means he wins. If Murray does, then I think he will

But I favour Fed

Great to see both of them - note that they've now contested the two fastest events of this year

Harsh but true, he looked dead on them in the 3rd and 4th set.

Not sure if the 2 weeks is catching up with him

Murray only made the final thanks to Lukas Rosol, I expect to see Lukas in Murrays box for Sunday, sporting a Saltire and wearing a red beard.

Murray has truly done the country proud. 74 years since a Brit achieved what he achieved today.

He has a chance to win if he believes in himself and brings his best. But even if he doesn't I am one happy and pleased Murray fan. A world class sportsman with total dedication to his craft. All too rare in this country. Maybe now those Brits who choose not to back him will realise what a diamond he is, and how lucky we are that there is a GB next to his name.

Well done Andy and all the best for Sunday.

Danny_1982 wrote:Murray has truly done the country proud. 74 years since a Brit achieved what he achieved today.

He has a chance to win if he believes in himself and brings his best. But even if he doesn't I am one happy and pleased Murray fan. A world class sportsman with total dedication to his craft. All too rare in this country. Maybe now those Brits who choose not to back him will realise what a diamond he is, and how lucky we are that there is a GB next to his name.

Well done Andy and all the best for Sunday.

Warm and genuine comments but will fall on bitter people's ears here me thinks.

Probably Craig, but I don't care.

So pleased for him. Must be a huge weight off his shoulders. I think because of the history he's achieved today he could be less inhibited than previous slam finals on Sunday, which would be great news.

legendkillarV2 wrote:[Harsh but true, he looked dead on them in the 3rd and 4th setNot sure if the 2 weeks is catching up with him

I honestly think that an 'on message' Tsonga plays the best Tennis of anyone and that's what we saw. Granted Andy stupidly gave his serve away in that first game - but Jo's like a juggernaught (as Fed found last year) once he gets going he can't be stopped

Notice that Nole looked knackered as welll!! My point is that they all look a bit leaden footed when their opponents are doing something special

However, you have a point that if Fed starts like he did in the last two Slam finals they met and like he normally does - will Andy suddenly start slouching around and getting too defensive. Probably, but not for as long as usual. Let's rememeber that late on in the 4th set, Murray was creating break points against Tsonga serving like a dream

I expect the Wimbledon organisers desperate for a home champion will be disrupting Federer tonight and tomorrow. Hecklers will also be in the crowd calling out on his serves.

Danny_1982 wrote: I think because of the history he's achieved today he could be less inhibited than previous slam finals on Sunday, which would be great news.

I agree. Strangely and I thought this wouldn't occur again, for me the pressure's on Roger. How many more times will Roger be in a draw where Nadal gets blasted out in the 2nd round and Nole plays like he did in 2009?

Josiah Maiestas wrote:I expect the Wimbledon organisers desperate for a home champion will be disrupting Federer tonight and tomorrow. Hecklers will also be in the crowd calling out on his serves.

You and Seifer, really do have the market conquered for inane comments

First off I really enjoyed what I got to see of Fed v Djoko and throughly enjoyed Murray v Tsonga. Disappointed Tsonga lost but he was poor for the first two sets and it's tough to come back from that.


I'm not a huge fan of Murray, he is a fantastic player but I don't like the whole hype machine surrounding him it just aggravates me a bit. Best of luck to him on Sunday, will miss the game first time around but wish him the best of luck. Rooting for Roger Federer though. Make it 17 and counting!

Thomond wrote:he is a fantastic player but I don't like the whole hype machine surrounding him it just aggravates me a bit

But it's not hype. "Hype" is to make exaggerated claims about someones talent or to suggest they can do better than their talent warrants

Murray's now reached 3 Slam finals, has 6 Masters titles and a postive Head to Head against Federer - so when people say that he's great enough to win a slam, it's not hype

banbrotam wrote:

Thomond wrote:he is a fantastic player but I don't like the whole hype machine surrounding him it just aggravates me a bit

But it's not hype. "Hype" is to make exaggerated claims about someones talent or to suggest they can do better than their talent warrants

Murray's now reached 3 Slam finals, has 6 Masters titles and a postive Head to Head against Federer - so when people say that he's great enough to win a slam, it's not hype

It's actually 4 Slam finals and 8 Masters but who's counting? Just makes your point even more convincing.

Anyway back on topic:
This was a sum-up of today's play-

http://www.sportpulse.net/content/murray-sets-date-destiny-federer-wimbledon-final-3938

Will be interesting to see what happens now- Fed is bookies favourite.

Thomond - Murray can't do anything about the British media.

I actually think our media are too negative towards him, rather than hyping him up. They slated Henman for being too nice and not mean enough, and they get at Murray for being too mean and not nice enough!

Bizarre really. I also think its bizarre that people often say "he's got no personality". Now, according to those that know him he's a great lad... But why should he open himself up to our viscous media anyway? I wouldn't. Give them an inch and they crucify you, as Andy found out a few years ago.

I love the guys talent, love his dedication, and fully understand his stand offish approach with the media. My only wish is that he had more belief in himself, but I think that might come now after this achievement.

carrieg4 wrote:

banbrotam wrote:

Thomond wrote:he is a fantastic player but I don't like the whole hype machine surrounding him it just aggravates me a bit

But it's not hype. "Hype" is to make exaggerated claims about someones talent or to suggest they can do better than their talent warrants

Murray's now reached 3 Slam finals, has 6 Masters titles and a postive Head to Head against Federer - so when people say that he's great enough to win a slam, it's not hype

It's actually 4 Slam finals and 8 Masters but who's counting? Just makes your point even more convincing.

Can't believe I got that wrong, cheers carrieg4

Danny_1982 wrote:Thomond - Murray can't do anything about the British media.

I actually think our media are too negative towards him, rather than hyping him up. They slated Henman for being too nice and not mean enough, and they get at Murray for being too mean and not nice enough!

Bizarre really. I also think its bizarre that people often say "he's got no personality". Now, according to those that know him he's a great lad... But why should he open himself up to our viscous media anyway? I wouldn't. Give them an inch and they crucify you, as Andy found out a few years ago.

I love the guys talent, love his dedication, and fully understand his stand offish approach with the media. My only wish is that he had more belief in himself, but I think that might come now after this achievement.

Murray has great respect from those who have bothered to get to know him and know Tennis, i.e. like Neil Harman of the times - that ice bath interview is one of the funniest things a player has thought of and shows an intelligent wit with a dry sense of humour, far too subtle for most

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banbrotam wrote:

carrieg4 wrote:

banbrotam wrote:

Thomond wrote:he is a fantastic player but I don't like the whole hype machine surrounding him it just aggravates me a bit

But it's not hype. "Hype" is to make exaggerated claims about someones talent or to suggest they can do better than their talent warrants

Murray's now reached 3 Slam finals, has 6 Masters titles and a postive Head to Head against Federer - so when people say that he's great enough to win a slam, it's not hype

It's actually 4 Slam finals and 8 Masters but who's counting? Just makes your point even more convincing.

Can't believe I got that wrong, cheers carrieg4

No probs. Enjoy the wine and home made pizza

legendkillarV2 wrote:Well looking at it, Federer is looking like Slam winning form.

Apparently if Roger wins, Oxfam get £1 million. Have you heard that story?

Its not a million for the bet, its £100k from a £1500 66-1 bet that a deceased gent put on Fed to take 7 wimbledons from 2003. He left it to Oxfam in his will.


I agree Fed is the overriding favourite, however i really strongly disagree that Murray has been lucky to get through Ferrer and Tsonga. I actually think he has played damn near the best two slam matches of his life to take care of both in 4 sets. There were two of the form players coming into Wimbledon, both very different and both he played better in the important moments - in my opinion he won both of those matches like a champ.

I also think that at 1-2 odds on, the money has gone a bit to far on Fed. I have it at 3/5. So i have a wager on Murray to win the match with the hope i can lay off for a profit at some stage

Murray to win in 5!

I hope Murray can do it, it would be a very big moment for the sport. But then again it would be in another way a huge moment for the sport to see Roger regain the #1 and win his 7th wimbeldon when many counted him out.

My whole not supporting Murray got a lot of discussion the rugby pub! I think the conclusion was I just don't support him, for reasons unknown. I like him as a player but it might have something to do with the way some Irish feel about supporting British/English teams. I don't know what it is really, think he is a superb talent but just can't really say go on Murray or anything like that!

This, for me, is the dream final and it's amazing to think it's the third time it's happened in GS. It's a win-win situation, with plenty of positives for me from either result.
Both players have had their struggles to get to the final. Both have played under the roof and both are in good form. Fed is favourite and has the added incentive of getting to number one again with a win.
Andy, in some ways, has done the hard job of getting to the final. He should go out there and enjoy it, play attacking tennis and give it everything.

I agree that it's my dream final. Whoever wins there is a wonderful story to celebrate. For both reaching the final is a terrific achievement, but neither will want to rest on their laurels.

I think Fed is the marginal favourite because it's grass and Murray has not faced him on grass, and I also prefer Fed just. It.s an individual sport, Fed's been my favourite player for so long and winning to get back to no. 1 is not something I expected to see. I think Murray would take more from a loss than Fed again, just.

If they meet in an Olympic Final or any other slam final from after tomorrow I'd support Murray.

Weather could be important; Murry would prefer a windy, dry day as his game is less finely tuned than Federer and in a hacking contest he'd win.

I understand that's broadly the forecast.

I think the tennis gods are giving this one to Fed. 60% chance of shower/rain on Sunday. Roof will probably be closed and the king of grass AND indoor tennis will not be upstaged , I don't think.

However, Murray will still be honored as the 1st Brit to reach a W final in XX years. Well done.

bogbrush wrote:Weather could be important; Murry would prefer a windy, dry day as his game is less finely tuned than Federer and in a hacking contest he'd win.

I understand that's broadly the forecast.

It is. And in some respect Murray's already had some luck as I would have feared Tsonga's serve would have been too much to handle under the roof and he'd have made less errors, due to confidence in his serve etc. So in some respects he Murray got lucky

And tommorow, is looking windy but dry, i.e. not hot - condtions which makes the court that medium fast pace that Murray likes as oppposed to the super fast stuff, where Fed is in a League of his own

Still favour Fed though - but there 2010 meeting wasn't as one sided as us Murray fans first thought. He must take his oppotunities when there is a lull in the Fed play - becasue that's the only thing that seperates the Fed of today from the one of say 2006, the GOAT is more prone to dips (not surprising given his age)

Murray's done well thought to get through the form players of Ferrer and Tsonga who played some of their best ever Tennis on the grass (for spells) for the loss of two sets

Interesting to see that the match yesterday had more quality from both of them than the Queens final of last year - Tsonga could at last be entering a 3 year period during which he wins Masters and a Slam or two

Tsonga let Murray off he hook yesterday.

I had fully expected Tsonga to win the fourth set after he fought back from 15-40 down to get to 5-4 and had BPs against Murray.

laverfan wrote:Tsonga let Murray off he hook yesterday.

I had fully expected Tsonga to win the fourth set after he fought back from 15-40 down to get to 5-4 and had BPs against Murray.

Who's your pick for the final, LF?

reckoner wrote:

laverfan wrote:Tsonga let Murray off he hook yesterday.

I had fully expected Tsonga to win the fourth set after he fought back from 15-40 down to get to 5-4 and had BPs against Murray.

Who's your pick for the final, LF?

Federer in 4. I will shed a tear for Andy though. I want Andy to win the USO 2012. As CC says, It is now or never. (Mark I - https://www.606v2.com/t32118-it-s-now-or-never).

Andy will fight though.

Sounds reasonable, LF. I don't buy into the now or never thing though - Murray / Djoker are 25, Nadal is 26 - they have several years of peak play left.

The now or never thing was specifically for Roger to win Wimbledon, Andy to to reach the Final and Jo-Wilifried to reach the Final.

Fair enough CC.

Jo needs to find a new career after that performance yesterday. I would have beaten him those first 2 sets!

Murray to win in 5. It'll be very very close but Murray will sneak over the line. If he does win tomorrow, expect a few more Grand Slams to follow.

There is, perhaps, another dimension to consider: should Murray put Federer under any kind of pressure early on in the match, he may well feel the unexpected pressure of not wanting to be the one to break Britain's unenviable record in failing to win this event for such a long time. Indeed, it may cross his mind that that is all he will be remembered for.

Here's hoping!

Seifer Almasy wrote: I haven't been wrong much this tournament.

Me neither. I predicted a Federer/Murray final and got it.

Murray relies on his opponents beating themselves. He was lucky that Ferrer beat himself and Tsonga left it too late. Federer will win fairly comfortably in the end as long as he doesn't let the interbred flag waving toffs turn him off.