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The Blues' blues.

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Cardiff Dave
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Post by Glas a du Tue 10 Apr 2012, 14:11

https://www.606v2.com/t25846-baber-s-the-man-with-a-dragon-slaying-plan

What is going wrong at the Blues?

The above article is a report of a pre match press conference before the Dragons v Blues match. This was almost a month ago. The Blues lost this match 18-14. They then lost at home to the noisy Scarlets (Link) They went to Glasgow and lost shipping a try bonus point. Finally their humiliation was completed in the Aviva Stadium, Dublin. Not quite the 50+ point league drubbing they had received in the RDS, but it may as well have been.

Leinster did not take that game for granted. The logic is simple. Wales recently mugged Ireland from their point of view in that very stadium with Halfpenny being crucial to that success. Halfpenny was here again, his team made up of British Lions, Welsh internationals and some All Blacks.

They needn't have worried. The dog in the Blues' side rolled over to have its belly tickled.

So what is going on in Cardiff? 10% of the population of Wales are on their doorstep. That figure jumps up if you count the valleys within easy reach to the North.

Just before this 'block' fell out of the season, two league matches were played in the Cardiff Arms Park. Ulster and Connacht were beaten with the old ground full. Yet the next home game was against the Scarlets at Cardiff City Stadium. Despite the extra capacity, the crucial nature of the game, and a decent away crowd, the attendees could have fitted into the Arms Park. Only marginally more people than had turned out for the Connacht game. That shows that there is a passionate core support available and will turn out if given what they want. I don't think a long term move back to the Arms Park is likely (given the lease of the CCS) or desirable given the limit on fan numbers there and the ongoing negotiations with Cardiff Athletic Club about the Millennium Stadium. Another way must be found.

It's a Grand Slam season and Wales have done well. Yet the return of the international players has coincided with this slump. The Ospreys are the next visitors to the Blues. With the exit from Europe and slide away from the play offs in the league I doubt whether there will be more than 8,000 in the crowd despite the supposed added draw of those players.

Rather than failing to attract punters it seems that the Blues are managing to actively discourage them.

These last few weeks have seen the emergence of "Valleys Rugby". Fans in the Blues' 'region' (and to a lesser extent the Dragons and Ospreys regions) have mobilised with the assistance of Pontypridd MP Owen Smith to produce a blueprint for a new region to coincide with a PriceWaterhouseCoopers report on the Regions commissioned by the WRU. The implication is clear. Fans in the Valleys consider themselves disenfranchised. I won't reherse the arguments around this here.

In my view the mental block of getting Valleys fans to support the Blues was not insurmountable. It required a fundamental change of approach however. This it seems was a change too far for the Blues who would have seen it as a loss of their identity as the Capital City club, something they have fought hard to preserve.

There is another theory of course; the one that says that if you're good enough they will attend. That brings us back on field. The Blues are under performing, but why?

They have players leaving at the end of the season. Laulala however is one of them and is clearly determined to impress his new bosses with decent end of season displays. I don't think this should be acceptable as an excuse therefore.

The Henson episode has grabbed headlines. Yet Saracens and Toulon survived the same whirlwind without collapse, why should the Blues be different? Perhaps we are yet to hear the "full facts" Peter Thomas alluded to in the extrodinary article in the Western Mail. (Link)

My concern is that the much discussed coaching set up of Justin Burnell and Gareth Baber is not an easy fit with the current squad. The failure to unlock Henson's potential, the half time 'discussion' between Burnell and Dan Parks (who was gesticulaing wildly, clearly not happy) broadcast to the nation, the seeming demotivation of Grand Slam winners are little signs that not all is well at the Blues. The big sign of course is the run of results. Burnell and Baber have decent CV's and are young Welsh coaches from the Valleys. That looked like a plan. It will be tragic however if the clear underlying divisons within the Blues region keep fans away, but also impact on a perfectly good coaching team.

As ever these questions are not easy to answer. The Blues need to do something and quick. It's fashionable for the rest to bash the Blues, but the loss of a club in our Capital City will not help Welsh rugby. I feel the time has come to embrace the future and release the past, to reach out to those parts of the region who feel alienated. Sever the umbilical cord with Cardiff RFC and rebrand if necessary, put a game or two on at Sardis Road. Otherwise the twin problems of lack of revenue (given the costs of renting the CCS) and the on field malais could feed each other in a vicious cycle of decline.


Sources:

Justin Burnell CV
(Link)

Gareth Baber CV
(Link)

Valleys Rugby Website
(Link).

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Tue 10 Apr 2012, 15:01

I think the Blues are at a cross roads and need to do one of two things either

- come out and say "We are the Cardiff Blues, and we represent Cardiff as a team, if you are from the surrounding areas and you wish to come and support us brilliant, however we are a Cardiff based side, and we play for the people of Cardiff. We support the Valleys with their proposal to the WRU and wish them sucess" That way they could completely sever their links to the region and go alone as a super-club, whilst not misleading anyone, and being clear about who they are and what they are about.

or

- come out and say "We are the Blues, and we represent not only Cardiff, but also Pontypridd and the rest of the surounding area that the Dragons or Ospreys do not cover. We will do our best to ensure that all the people of our region get a fair say in what is going on with the region. We need to be based in Cardiff as it is the population centre, however we will do our best to ensure that the region is represented as a region, and any 'super-club' issues will be dealt with post-haste." Granted this will lead to the loss of the Cardiff super-club fans, whoever it should be a real step towards mending the fences that have been broken.


Personally I would doubt that either will be done, and I doubt that we would even be having this discussion if it were not for the Blues recent results. That said lets not get too depressend about htings the Blues were the best of the Welsh regions in the HEC this season, as they managed to get to the QFs unlike any of the rest of us. Also they have been sitting quite high in the Rabo all season, and look pretty comfortable to be in next seasons HEC (even if the Dragons finish above them in the Rabo, if Clearmont/Edinburgh win the HEC they qualify). The Blues have a new coaching team, and things like that take a while to bed in properly (Nigel Davies was booed post match by Scarlets fans) as the players need to learn the systems the coaches want etc or they have a wonderful honeymoon followed by disaster (Phil Davies took the Scarlets to the HEC semi-final in season 1 and then we turned to cack the next season), so IMO the jury is still out on Baber and Burnell.
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Post by Kingshu Tue 10 Apr 2012, 15:23

My opionion.

Cardiff RFC spent over a million off their own money to be a stand-alone club, the next year the WRU lumped the Valleys on them, (valleys didn't want it and Cardiff didn't want it) it was a shotgun marrage by the WRU and neither was happy, and the WRU never came back to sort out rugby in the valleys.

WRU are the ones to blame for this, Scarlets are moving into regional concept and being bought into, Osreys alway tryed to act as a region, Dragons seam to be as well now.

People say if Cardiff want to compete they have to rebrand. I don'tt believe they do, they have the supporter base to stand alone.

For North Wales and the valleys I don't think the WRU have been helpful,instead of trying to work out a solution to the problems in these areas I think they have left them in a mess and told the clubs to come back to us when you have a solution to this issue, while we bury our heads in the sand.

This pricewaterhouseandcooper report is going to be the biggest thing to happen to Welsh rugby since 2003.

I predict some very happy fans and some annoyed fans.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Tue 10 Apr 2012, 15:30

Kingshu wrote:Cardiff RFC spent over a million off their own money to be a stand-alone club, the next year the WRU lumped the Valleys on them, (valleys didn't want it and Cardiff didn't want it) it was a shotgun marrage by the WRU and neither was happy, and the WRU never came back to sort out rugby in the valleys.

Problem is, and if I am wrong I apologise in advance, The Cardiff Blues hit some serious money problems during the first season of regionalism, and also finished bottom of the five regions (meaning no HEC). To then say to a team, that were looking like they would be the powerhouse of the regions in a season or two, that they were to be disbanded and then forced to follow a 'lesser' (at the time) team was always going to cause problems. It would have been fairer the other way around, with the Blues being disbanded and forced to follow the Warriors/Dragons.

I do agree with you with regards this financial audit thing, I have a feeling that welsh rugby will be shaken up again, and most likely it will take a while for the dust to settle.
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Post by Glas a du Tue 10 Apr 2012, 16:15

Kingshu - fine, but they are not exciting their core. The Edinburgh match in the HC was very poorly attended. There was some spinning going on in the press a few months ago about a development region (Dragons? Scarlets?) on the Connacht model. That would allow the other three to sweep up the additional funding. Call me a cynic, but I smell a rat.

Doh
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Post by Cardiff Dave Tue 10 Apr 2012, 16:21

Kingshu wrote:My opionion.

Cardiff RFC spent over a million off their own money to be a stand-alone club, the next year the WRU lumped the Valleys on them, (valleys didn't want it and Cardiff didn't want it) it was a shotgun marrage by the WRU and neither was happy, and the WRU never came back to sort out rugby in the valleys.

WRU are the ones to blame for this, Scarlets are moving into regional concept and being bought into, Osreys alway tryed to act as a region, Dragons seam to be as well now.

People say if Cardiff want to compete they have to rebrand. I don'tt believe they do, they have the supporter base to stand alone.

For North Wales and the valleys I don't think the WRU have been helpful,instead of trying to work out a solution to the problems in these areas I think they have left them in a mess and told the clubs to come back to us when you have a solution to this issue, while we bury our heads in the sand.

This pricewaterhouseandcooper report is going to be the biggest thing to happen to Welsh rugby since 2003.

I predict some very happy fans and some annoyed fans.

Agreed.
I was going to add something about the politics at Cardiff Blues which has been a massive hinderance for years and years, but I won't.

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Post by Cardiff Dave Tue 10 Apr 2012, 16:26

Glas a du wrote:Kingshu - fine, but they are not exciting their core.

Cardiff Blues shat on their core support many years ago i'm afraid and I reckon there are only around 1500 season ticket holders at CCS, if that. No doubt there'll be even less next season unless something drastic happens in the following months.

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Post by BoyneRFC Tue 10 Apr 2012, 16:28

Leinster did not take that game for granted. The logic is simple. Wales recently mugged Ireland from their point of view in that very stadium with Halfpenny being crucial to that success.

LOL. To be fair Leinster were never going to come out and say that they were... I'd say they always knew they had it.

At half time, they stopped trying and practiced their defense.. like a tom cat toying with a half dead mouse I heard it described yesterday.

Apt.

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Post by Glas a du Tue 10 Apr 2012, 16:41

I know its hardly a representative sample, but two respected (by me at least) Leinster supporters were peddling that line for all they were worth Friday and Saturday morning. But that's fans not players.

You're not wrong about the mouse bit.
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Post by Cardiff Dave Tue 10 Apr 2012, 16:52

BoyneRFC wrote:
Leinster did not take that game for granted. The logic is simple. Wales recently mugged Ireland from their point of view in that very stadium with Halfpenny being crucial to that success.

LOL. To be fair Leinster were never going to come out and say that they were... I'd say they always knew they had it.

At half time, they stopped trying and practiced their defense.. like a tom cat toying with a half dead mouse I heard it described yesterday.

Apt.

Toying was a word that came to my mind at half time.

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 10 Apr 2012, 17:00

If you think the WRU will let a the "capital" side go under then you all need your heads read. Just like the Scarlets a few seasons ago the WRU will bail them out. The WRU obviously has plans afoot but sadly the only way the Valleys come into this is to be told yet again that the "CARDIFF" Blues are our region. The only other plans are for something to happen in North Wales, the Pontypridd MP and the rest of us valley dwellers can make as much noise as we like but nothing will happen, the people at Cardiff have to much sway with WRU because of the power they have at their disposal and until the WRU grow a pair and tell the Blues to sort their region out nothing will happen. We all heard Roger Lewis admitting their was a problem and they have plans on how to fix it, so now, what we will probably see around the valleys are Cardiff Blues posters and billboards with some uncle sam headline like "YOUR REGION NEEDS YOU" and they will then expect us all to club around and go to watch the CARDIFF Blues as they cannot drum up enough support from the big city, and lets be honest here, Cardiff Blues have never wanted anything to do with the valleys.

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Post by Liam Tue 10 Apr 2012, 19:04

Peter Thomas and the current board to leave. Give the club ownership to the fans like in Spanish football and move back to CAP. This forces fans to turn up to games because it means that they are keeping the club affloat. Intices others from the valley's to put money into the club because they will be in control of the club and will have a say with what's going on. More marketing in the valley's and mid Wales (I think Blues got a thing for the Royal Welsh in Builth Wells, they're up there when I go) and bobs your uncle everything's sorted. Well maybe not but its an idea, big whoop wanna fight about it Very Happy

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Post by Steffan Tue 10 Apr 2012, 19:29

Easier option would be for Cardiff to merge with Newport. Form a region called the Blue Dragons or something. All games to be played at Rodney Parade as team in Arms Park must be called 'Cardiff' apparently. People from Cardiff shouldnt have any problem making the short train journey over. The Valleys (Gwent, Rhondda etc) then get their own region and not left out in the cold. Job done

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Post by Cardiff Dave Tue 10 Apr 2012, 21:15

martyr_94 wrote:Peter Thomas and the current board to leave.

All board members? Not all are bad eggs.

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Post by Cardiff Dave Tue 10 Apr 2012, 21:43

LordDowlais wrote:If you think the WRU will let a the "capital" side go under then you all need your heads read. Just like the Scarlets a few seasons ago the WRU will bail them out. The WRU obviously has plans afoot but sadly the only way the Valleys come into this is to be told yet again that the "CARDIFF" Blues are our region. The only other plans are for something to happen in North Wales, the Pontypridd MP and the rest of us valley dwellers can make as much noise as we like but nothing will happen, the people at Cardiff have to much sway with WRU because of the power they have at their disposal and until the WRU grow a pair and tell the Blues to sort their region out nothing will happen. We all heard Roger Lewis admitting their was a problem and they have plans on how to fix it, so now, what we will probably see around the valleys are Cardiff Blues posters and billboards with some uncle sam headline like "YOUR REGION NEEDS YOU" and they will then expect us all to club around and go to watch the CARDIFF Blues as they cannot drum up enough support from the big city, and lets be honest here, Cardiff Blues have never wanted anything to do with the valleys.

Unfortunately for Ponty, the facts are that Cardiff and their hangers on have copious amounts of cash, to waste if they please, and therefore enormous political clout. They weren't labelled cheque book charlies for nothing and what makes a politician salivate more than anything (without being rude)? That is why comparing Cardiff to Ponty (or a new valleys entity) is like comparing chalk with cheese. That's the way it is i'm afraid.
In many ways I don't like it and there is no chance that Cardiff Blues would have ventured to Leckwith without political interference and a profit making opportunity.

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 11 Apr 2012, 12:16

Cardiff Dave wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:If you think the WRU will let a the "capital" side go under then you all need your heads read. Just like the Scarlets a few seasons ago the WRU will bail them out. The WRU obviously has plans afoot but sadly the only way the Valleys come into this is to be told yet again that the "CARDIFF" Blues are our region. The only other plans are for something to happen in North Wales, the Pontypridd MP and the rest of us valley dwellers can make as much noise as we like but nothing will happen, the people at Cardiff have to much sway with WRU because of the power they have at their disposal and until the WRU grow a pair and tell the Blues to sort their region out nothing will happen. We all heard Roger Lewis admitting their was a problem and they have plans on how to fix it, so now, what we will probably see around the valleys are Cardiff Blues posters and billboards with some uncle sam headline like "YOUR REGION NEEDS YOU" and they will then expect us all to club around and go to watch the CARDIFF Blues as they cannot drum up enough support from the big city, and lets be honest here, Cardiff Blues have never wanted anything to do with the valleys.

Unfortunately for Ponty, the facts are that Cardiff and their hangers on have copious amounts of cash, to waste if they please, and therefore enormous political clout. They weren't labelled cheque book charlies for nothing and what makes a politician salivate more than anything (without being rude)? That is why comparing Cardiff to Ponty (or a new valleys entity) is like comparing chalk with cheese. That's the way it is i'm afraid.
In many ways I don't like it and there is no chance that Cardiff Blues would have ventured to Leckwith without political interference and a profit making opportunity.

Here,here it is all corrupt to the core. I bet you there will still be a Cardiff Blues next season, and I bet you the WRU will bail them out, we have all been told the "FOUR REGIONS" will not be changed, this is all because certain people want too keep thier "status" in and around the rugby circles and as they say money talks. I shall say this again on here to stop any pipe dreams, THERE WILL NOT BE A VALLEYS REGION !!!! The only plans for a new region, and they are still miles away is for North Wales. thumbsup

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